Finale don't understand musical notation.

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gorannil
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 8:27 am
Finale Version: printMusic
Operating System: Windows

Post by gorannil » Sat May 29, 2021 6:29 am

Finale don't understand musical notation. :mrgreen:

Two measures. In the first there is a #C-note
in the second measure there is just a C-note.

Now I add a tie between them.
That makes the C-note in the second measure a
#C-note also. Because when tied together the #
accidental will effect the C-note in the
second measure.

But Finale plays two separate notes:
#C and C

(When not tied together the #
accidental shall not effect the C-note in the
second measure. But when tied together it shall.)


Pat Fox
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Finale Version: V27.4
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Post by Pat Fox » Sat May 29, 2021 8:36 am

I might be off base but are you sure you are using a tie or a slur. The way you describe it, it sounds like a slur.

gorannil
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Finale Version: printMusic
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Post by gorannil » Sat May 29, 2021 9:58 am

IT IS A TIE.

Strange It is both in PrintMusic 2014 (LIcensed)
And
in Finale v26 (DEMO)

I mean I can not be the first one to see this bug
and they have not fix it in V26 ... so probably
not in the soom coming v27. I have done computer
proramming (windows in assambler and C) so I can say
this is a very simle thing to fix.

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johnmouse
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Post by johnmouse » Sat May 29, 2021 10:21 am

gorannil wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 9:58 am
IT IS A TIE.
1. Please do not yell.

2. What you describe is normal for Finale entry. You stated that in the first measure you have a C# and in the second measure a C-natural. The assumption, since you didn't state, is that C is not sharped in the key signature. That being said, when you enter the C-natural in measure 2, Finale has done exactly what it was supposed to do. When you place the tie, you must also raise the C-natural in measure 2. The accidental will not show, but the note will play correctly. This is also true if you place the C#, then the tie, then C in measure 2. You must raise the C a half step. Seriously, it's only one extra keystroke. Not a big deal.

It's not that "Finale don't understand musical notatation." The user needs to understand the software. Including its behaviors.

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HaraldS
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Finale Version: 25.5
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Post by HaraldS » Sat May 29, 2021 1:04 pm

See - you state "Finale don't understand musical notation.". But: if you have a c# and a c and you tie them together, what do you imagine Finale to do:
  • should Finale delete the tie or not accepting the tie command? Different pitches can't be tied!
  • should the c# be lowered to c? The c# might be an error!
  • or should the c be raised to c# ? The c might be an error!
Luckily, it doesn't do any of these. It's not Finale not understanding musical notation, it simply leaves the user every option, including the non-senseful ones. Finale does not restrict the user to a specific musical notation tradition, that's its philosophy since decades. That can be found in many tools and sub-windows. Maybe you haven't used it for decades and would prefer another philosophy?

If Finale would make any of these decisions above, it would claim to know better than me. I like it for it doesn't do that. If I were an inexperienced composer or Finale user, I would run a plug-in or a JWLua script for error checking, which is certainly possible.
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

gorannil
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Post by gorannil » Sat May 29, 2021 1:31 pm

Well ... it is a very BIG DEAL;
I have score , but finale plays something else.

Finale plays like a person who does not
understand musical notation.

gorannil
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Finale Version: printMusic
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Post by gorannil » Sat May 29, 2021 2:02 pm

If I try to add # as a "Courtesy Accidental"
to the C-note in the second measure no
"Courtesy accidental #" will show up in the
score ... but now the score is played back OK.

So there is a way to teach Finale some
good manners here.

Strange gets stranger ...

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miker
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by miker » Sat May 29, 2021 3:37 pm

Does any other software work the way gorannil wants it to?

You can also sharp the note in the new measure (by simply tapping the + key.) When you add the tie, the sharp will disappear.

Personally, since I just enter one note at a time, it's easy to hear and modify as I go.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat May 29, 2021 3:47 pm

As you're entering music, if there's a C-sharp accidental and you tie it over the barline, you need to then explicitly enter a C-sharp in the next measure. You have a legitimate complaint that Finale should make it sharp for you (and you're not the first to complain about it), but it just doesn't work that way, and entering a C-sharp is just something you need to get used to.

I thought Utilities/Check Notation/Check Ties would find such mismatches, but apparently not! There is a free download you can get, JW Validate, however, that will. But it might be easiest to just listen to playback to catch them.

The fix isn't a courtesy accidental! That would just display a natural on the second note. You actually need to make it sharp.

gorannil
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Post by gorannil » Sat May 29, 2021 4:02 pm

"It's easy to hear and modify as I go".

Yes it was for me because I know this pice very well.
But I went back to my spinet to see that I myself
did play the right notes. Yes I did.
Then I know that Finale did not.

But if you don't know the music you can't tell.
And yes I am alredy getting used to it. I like finale.

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