Hi,
I'm using VSL products with Vienna Ensemble. For those I've created instrument techniques in Midi/Audio > Human playback. I'm using "new techniques" with "Instrument" = "Any" with keyswitches as actions and "Filter" = "articulation names" that I create. For the most part, these keyswitches are normally activated during playback, if the according articulation is placed in the staff.
However I've come across a problem. Some of the articulations do not trigger in certain instruments, even within the same instrument family. It is as if the articulation is not read. It works with some instruments, so the keyswitch and the general setup must be correct. But with some instruments, it is as if it doesn't get through to Vienna Ensemble.
I've checked inserting the according note right into the staff to trigger the keyswitch within Vienna Ensemble: That is working just fine. So the issue must be something like: proper read out of articulations, proper link between the articulation/HP to Vienna Ensemble, some sort of an overlap between different HP-techniques that refer to the same Keyswitch, or maybe some sort of limitation within information transfer in finale (cache quantity, number of articulations that can be used).
Does anybody have an idea?
Regards
Custom Articulations (KS techniques) not playing (VST)
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
I use Vienna but you haven't provided enough specific information in order to assist. One of the easiest things to overlook is entering an instrument name in the "name" column in the score manager. Without that a keyswitch will not work for that staff.
Also, the newer Synchron samples use a different keyswitch setup, designed to be used with a DAW. Even if you download their Synchron keyswitch library for Finale not all articulations are available. I assume you're using the original VSL "special edition" samples.
I've experimented with entering filters in a custom HP definition - and haven't gotten them to work. If you can post a simple one-staff example with more information, or private message me, I'll try to help.
In the meantime I've attached a chart of Note-to-Hex (for creating a keyswitch dump in finale) and a
Note-to-Decimal chart which corresponds to the VSL grid (i.e., D1 on the grid is entered as 26 in the HP keyswitch box).
Also, the newer Synchron samples use a different keyswitch setup, designed to be used with a DAW. Even if you download their Synchron keyswitch library for Finale not all articulations are available. I assume you're using the original VSL "special edition" samples.
I've experimented with entering filters in a custom HP definition - and haven't gotten them to work. If you can post a simple one-staff example with more information, or private message me, I'll try to help.
In the meantime I've attached a chart of Note-to-Hex (for creating a keyswitch dump in finale) and a
Note-to-Decimal chart which corresponds to the VSL grid (i.e., D1 on the grid is entered as 26 in the HP keyswitch box).
- Attachments
-
Finale 27, Windows 10, VST: Vienna Instruments/Ensemble/Synchron, Cubase, Kontakt 5
Hi,
reordered everything, deleted all articulations, put in the newly defined. Same Problem at the same point. First two horns, the custom "Portato" Articulation is registered, but that "Portato" articulation is not registered in the trumpet (at the same point in the same measure). If I change from staccato to Portato in the horns after that first portato, staccatos work, Portatos don't. If I delete the Portato in the Trumpet, put in new staccato and portato in the Horns, it works again. Same goes for Staccato: Once used in the trumpets, it doesn't work in the horns anymore. Seems like using an Articulation in the Trumpet makes it unsuable anywhere else.
Second Exploration: If i use your keyswitches in the Trumpets, they work there flawlessly switching patches in VE, but they dont work in the horns. Using these keyswitches in the trumpets however, my custom articulations with HP-techniques work flawlessly in the horns again.
My guess: Limitation problem of information quantity in Finale. The articulations are not registered anymore after some point.
But I don't get it yet.
Does this clarify the problem?
Regards
reordered everything, deleted all articulations, put in the newly defined. Same Problem at the same point. First two horns, the custom "Portato" Articulation is registered, but that "Portato" articulation is not registered in the trumpet (at the same point in the same measure). If I change from staccato to Portato in the horns after that first portato, staccatos work, Portatos don't. If I delete the Portato in the Trumpet, put in new staccato and portato in the Horns, it works again. Same goes for Staccato: Once used in the trumpets, it doesn't work in the horns anymore. Seems like using an Articulation in the Trumpet makes it unsuable anywhere else.
Second Exploration: If i use your keyswitches in the Trumpets, they work there flawlessly switching patches in VE, but they dont work in the horns. Using these keyswitches in the trumpets however, my custom articulations with HP-techniques work flawlessly in the horns again.
My guess: Limitation problem of information quantity in Finale. The articulations are not registered anymore after some point.
But I don't get it yet.
Does this clarify the problem?
Regards
Unfortunately there are so many variables between Finale and VE that it's nearly impossible to troubleshoot. That's why I suggested posting a few measures of the trumpet and horn section that is problematic.
I have some very basic suggestions, so apologies if they seem simplistic. I assume you've confirmed that the expressions are assigned to the correct staff.
If the portato (or any) articulations in trumpet and horn are located in different cells of the VE matrix they will trigger only one of the instruments correctly. Have you tried creating separate keyswitch definitions for each of the two instruments?
Everything in VE is dependent on the matrix x-y position of the articulation. The portato articulation on my extended brass horn is on the 2nd row from the top of the matrix. If I want to trigger it I either have to copy the cell to a new position on the x axis, or use two expressions: one that targets the y axis and another that targets the x axis. I could also do this by creating an expression with both data dumps, but I've found this more labor intensive than just using two separate expressions.
I also don't use cc1 to target the y axis. I assign cc16 midi controller and have a library of cc16 values to trigger a move through the y axis. I've found it more effective to use cc1 to control Velocity XF, setting the Finale HP dynamic approach commensurately, but that's a personal preference.
I have some very basic suggestions, so apologies if they seem simplistic. I assume you've confirmed that the expressions are assigned to the correct staff.
If the portato (or any) articulations in trumpet and horn are located in different cells of the VE matrix they will trigger only one of the instruments correctly. Have you tried creating separate keyswitch definitions for each of the two instruments?
Everything in VE is dependent on the matrix x-y position of the articulation. The portato articulation on my extended brass horn is on the 2nd row from the top of the matrix. If I want to trigger it I either have to copy the cell to a new position on the x axis, or use two expressions: one that targets the y axis and another that targets the x axis. I could also do this by creating an expression with both data dumps, but I've found this more labor intensive than just using two separate expressions.
I also don't use cc1 to target the y axis. I assign cc16 midi controller and have a library of cc16 values to trigger a move through the y axis. I've found it more effective to use cc1 to control Velocity XF, setting the Finale HP dynamic approach commensurately, but that's a personal preference.
Finale 27, Windows 10, VST: Vienna Instruments/Ensemble/Synchron, Cubase, Kontakt 5
Hello Heinzfan,
thank you for your help so far!
From what you've told me, I assume that you are using Vienna Ensemble 6? I'm not sure, but haven't they replaced the matrix x-y-system in VE7 with the dimension structure in the synchron player? In my case, all my main articulation groups are ranging from -C to -B (KS 0-11). In the next dimension they are then specified. I have reordered the articulations to fit both woodwinds and brass, since they have roughly the same articulations. I use cc1 as the velocity XF variable controlled directly by Finale - like you I suppose.
As for additional material to post, I don't think it has something to do with the staffs or the notes themselves. If you need more info, please let me know. Atm I'm using my workaround.
Regards
thank you for your help so far!
From what you've told me, I assume that you are using Vienna Ensemble 6? I'm not sure, but haven't they replaced the matrix x-y-system in VE7 with the dimension structure in the synchron player? In my case, all my main articulation groups are ranging from -C to -B (KS 0-11). In the next dimension they are then specified. I have reordered the articulations to fit both woodwinds and brass, since they have roughly the same articulations. I use cc1 as the velocity XF variable controlled directly by Finale - like you I suppose.
As for additional material to post, I don't think it has something to do with the staffs or the notes themselves. If you need more info, please let me know. Atm I'm using my workaround.
Regards
