Cross Platform Conversion Question

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Dr H
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 2:31 am

Post by Dr H » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:35 pm

Hi there!

I posted a similar question in these fora a couple of years ago, but to date I haven't been able to make much progress towards my goal, so I thought I'd give it another shot.

My situation is this: I am a composer who has used Passport's "MusicTime Deluxe" as my notation software for many years, and I have literally thousands of pages of score in MusicTime's .MUS format. For a long time this program was perfectly adequate to my needs, and so I saw no reason to change platforms.

Eventually, however, I did find myself running up against the limitations of that old software more and more, and a friend suggested that I try "Finale", and bequeathed an older version of the program to my to try out. I did, and found that I liked the features offered by finale; however, I didn't want to abandon all of the music I have in MusicTime format. What I was hoping to be able to do was to import the old MusicTime scores into Finale for updating and editing.

Unfortunately, Finale's ".MUS" files are not the same as MusicTime's ".MUS" files, and Finale can't read the old files.

Some people in these fora suggested that if I could convert the MusicTime files into some more generic format (like MusicXML) that those files could then be imported into Finale. The vehicle suggested for this conversion was "Harmony Assistant".

In due course, I downloaded a demo copy of Harmony Assistant, and found that it will indeed open MusicTime Deluxe files, while retaining most of the information (seemed to be about 85-90% accurate). And Harmony Assistant will export the information into a .XML file (although it seems to lose some mote information in the process, like the occasional tie). Still, even a 75% conversion would potentially save me literally -years- of recopying time.

Unfortunately, Finale doesn't seem to recognize Harmony Assistant's .XML files, either -- so I'm kind of back where I started.

I'd -like- to convert to Finale. But I'm not willing to drop $600, (plus another $85 to register Harmony Assistant) if it means that I have to either abandon my past 16 years of music files, or spend another 8 years re-entering them into Finale.

Does Finale make any translation software that will convert these older formats into something that can be used with Finale? (Seems like it would be to Finale's advantage to do so...) Failing that, are there any third-part programs that can effect the required conversion into something that Finale can read, without losing all my dymanics, slurs, articulations, etc. in the process? Clearly, Harmony Assistant is not the answer -- unless there's something about getting Finale to read XML files that I'm missing (which is possible).

Any suggestions? TIA.

--
Dr H
Dr H


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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:24 am

Dr H wrote:…Eventually, however, I did find myself running up against the limitations of that old software more and more, and a friend suggested that I try "Finale", and bequeathed an older version of the program to my to try out…
What I was hoping to be able to do was to import the old MusicTime scores into Finale for updating and editing…
Unfortunately, Finale doesn't seem to recognize Harmony Assistant's .XML files…
How old is that "older version" of Finale?
Older versions of Finale did not have the ability themselves to import MusicXML files - instead they used the Dolet plug-in.
And even older Finale versions before that were unable to use the Dolet plug-in (= no MusicXML import at all).
The Dolet plug-in for Finale is a free download from
http://www.musicxml.com/

Dr H wrote:…Does Finale make any translation software that will convert these older formats into something that can be used with Finale?…
Clearly, Harmony Assistant is not the answer -- unless there's something about getting Finale to read XML files that I'm missing (which is possible)…
I do not know Harmony Assistant, so I can't tell how well it imports MusicTime documents.

Here is another way which may (or may not) give a better Finale import than the "Harmony Assistant" way:
1) Open the document in MusicTime Deluxe, and "print" the document to a PDF file.
2) Use the program PDFtoMusic Pro to create a MusicXML file from the pDF.
3) Import that MusicXML file into Finale.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Dr H
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 2:31 am

Post by Dr H » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:37 am

Hi, thanks for the reply.

>How old is that "older version" of Finale?

It's Version 3.0

>Older versions of Finale did not have the ability themselves to import MusicXML files - instead they used the Dolet plug-in.

OK, I'll give that a try; I'm downloading Dolet as I type this.

>I do not know Harmony Assistant, so I can't tell how well it imports MusicTime documents.

As I mentioned, it does a fair job of importing the files -- maybe 90% of the score materials come across.

>1) Open the document in MusicTime Deluxe, and "print" the document to a PDF file.

As far as I am able to determine, MusicTime Deluxe doesn't provide any way to output a document directly to a PDF file. There is a "print to file" option, which produces a file with a ".PRN" extention. Adobe doesn't seem to know what to make of the prn file.

I could print the document out on paper and /scan/ it into a PDF file -- but that will involve a lot of paper and a lot of work scanning.

>Use the program PDFtoMusic Pro to create a MusicXML file from the pDF.

Will this work from a scanned PDF? I seem to remember being told that it wouldn't.
Dr H

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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:51 am

Just to answer your last question: no, PDFtoMusic Pro will not work on a scanned file.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:34 am

Dr H wrote:Hi, thanks for the reply.

>How old is that "older version" of Finale?

It's Version 3.0…
Finale 3.0 is a very old version - about 20 years old (If I Recall Correctly).

I could be wrong here, but I seriously doubt that version 3.0 will work with the Dolet plug-in.

Dr H wrote:…>1) Open the document in MusicTime Deluxe, and "print" the document to a PDF file.

As far as I am able to determine, MusicTime Deluxe doesn't provide any way to output a document directly to a PDF file. There is a "print to file" option, which produces a file with a ".PRN" extention. Adobe doesn't seem to know what to make of the prn file…
In order to "print" to a PDF file you will need some third party software.
There is plenty of PDF software you can download from the web - just make a web search.
What operating system/version are you using?


An idea:

Instead of Finale 3.0, try the latest version of PrintMusic.
PrintMusic is a smaller "sibling" of the "full Finale", but it can actually do quite a lot, even if it can not do everything that the "full Finale can do.

One of PrintMusic's features is MusicXML import.

This means that PrintMusic can import your MusicTime DeLuxe documents, if only you can convert the documents to MusicXML files, either via Harmony Assistant or via a PDF file and PDFtoMusic Pro.

You can download the PrintMusic demo, and try it out.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Dr H
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Post by Dr H » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:20 am

Well, it appears that Dolet won't install on my system -- so much for that idea.

As far as creating PDF files, I have Adobe Approval, which will create PDFs from text and various wordprocessor files, but nothing in the help files say anything about creating PDFs from music notation files of any kind.

Yes, I know that I'm working with a very old version of Finale -- as I said, a friend gave it to me so that I could experiment with the various features before deciding whether I was going to want to purchase a current version. At this point, I'm not sure that I should. As much as I like a lot of the features in Finale, I don't want to drop $600 on a program that can't read the last 15 years of music I've written.

Your most recent suggestion, PrintMusic, seems to make the situation even more complicated, unless PrintMusic will read MusicTime Deluxe files directly. If not, I'm looking at spending almost $100 on Harmony Assistant to convert MuicTime files to MusicXML, $120 on PrintMusic to import the MusicXML, and $600 on Finale. That's getting close to $1000 worth of software, and if there is some loss of information at each step, I could get to the point where the amount of editing required is as much or more work than re-entering the original music directly into Finale from scratch.

This whole experience has been very frustrating, really. I mean, I could pick up a manuscript written by J. S. Bach 300 years ago, put in on a music stand, and play it today without any problem. But I can't get a program that's advertised as"the industry standard in music notation software" to read a score written in another popular notation program just 5 years ago.

I've been pursuing this question in the MusicTime Deluxe forum as well. They also make a professional notation program called "Encore," that will read MusicTime files directly, and their software only costs $400. I'm thinking that may be the best way for me to go. As much as I like what I've seen in Finale, if it can't work with the music I've already written, then it's much less useful to me.

Thanks for you suggestions.
Dr H

bvstudios
Posts: 93
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Finale Version: Finale 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by bvstudios » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:43 am

You might try downloading Cute PDF (or a similar app), a free application which creates clean pdf files from virtually every app I have tried it with. It installs on your Windows system like a printer driver and once installed, is found with your other printer(s).

To use it is simplicity. Simply "print" your older music files, selecting CUTEPDF as your printer from your list of printers. It does not use paper, but converts the file to pdf format and saves it to your harddrive (you can dedicate a folder to this project). Once you have the digital pdf version, you should then be able to import it as above, provided your version of Finale allows pdf imports. Note that this will not work with Print Music, so if you chose to go with this route, you will need to get your hands on a much newer edition of Finale.
K M Frye
BVStudios
Victoria
Finale 26, 2014.5, 2012 Print Music 2011b, 2010, 2009, 2007, 2004, 2000,1997
GPO4, JABB3, World Instruments.
S-I drums

Dr H
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Post by Dr H » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:27 am

You might try downloading Cute PDF (or a similar app), a free application which creates clean pdf files from virtually every app I have tried it with. It installs on your Windows system like a printer driver and once installed, is found with your other printer(s).

To use it is simplicity. Simply "print" your older music files, selecting CUTEPDF as your printer from your list of printers. It does not use paper, but converts the file to pdf format and saves it to your harddrive (you can dedicate a folder to this project). Once you have the digital pdf version, you should then be able to import it as above, provided your version of Finale allows pdf imports. Note that this will not work with Print Music, so if you chose to go with this route, you will need to get your hands on a much newer edition of Finale.
Ok, I gave that a try. Spent the 2 hours downloading "CutePDF," and the associated "GhostWriter PS2PDF Converter". Installed. Tested it with my wordprocessor, and yes, "CutePDF" had been added to the printer list.

Attempting to print to CutePDF crashed my wordprocessor -- every time.

But no matter, since this is about my MusicTime files. So I opened a file in MusicTime, and printed to CutePDF. It seemed to do something, but exactly what it did, I'm not sure. I wasn't asked for a filename or destination for the printed file, and I have no idea where it went on the system, if anywhere. I had windows search all my hard drives for a PDF file with a name similar to that of the music file, but Windows didn't turn up anything.

So, where, exactly, does "CutePDF" put these files??
Dr H

bvstudios
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by bvstudios » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:16 am

When I print from PM (Print Music 2011) to Cute pdf, a dialogue window opens up and asks me where I would like to save the resulting file. The default (in my Windows 7 installation) seems to be C:/users/username/My Documents, but once the dialogue box opens up, I am free to save the file anywhere I choose.

I am not sure why you did not get the dialogue box, but have a look at My Documents, and check for the .pdf extension. I hope you find it there! If I recall correctly (Xp users help me out here if you can) My Documents is a root file near the top of the list in Explorer.

Best of luck!
K M Frye
BVStudios
Victoria
Finale 26, 2014.5, 2012 Print Music 2011b, 2010, 2009, 2007, 2004, 2000,1997
GPO4, JABB3, World Instruments.
S-I drums

Dr H
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Post by Dr H » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:34 am

Nope. I searched all drives on the system for all PDF files. I have PDF files all over my system, but not the one allegedly created by CutePDF.

Today I purchased "Encore 5" from GVOX. This notation software purports to read all MusicTime files and offers output in MusicXML. But since my version of FInale doesn't seem to recognize XML, I may be stuck with Encore.
Dr H

bvstudios
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by bvstudios » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:24 am

I'm sorry that CutePDF didn't work out to your satisfaction. If it's not too late, I would suggest you try uninstalling and re-installing Cute PDF, then try again. It's normally all but bullet-proof.
K M Frye
BVStudios
Victoria
Finale 26, 2014.5, 2012 Print Music 2011b, 2010, 2009, 2007, 2004, 2000,1997
GPO4, JABB3, World Instruments.
S-I drums

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:50 pm

You can also try the free "Notepad 2012" (part of the Finale family, but basic) rather than your (too) old Finale, which won't deal with MusicXml files.
I hope that your Os is not too old, either, because that would bring some compatibility problems with more recent versions of Finale.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

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