Tuplet issues

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MichaelTrumpetPlayer
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Tuplet issues

Post by MichaelTrumpetPlayer » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:41 am

Sometimes it is easy for me to use the tuplet tool, but recently I've come up against a problem I can't handle.

When trying to enter, for example, four sets of triplets in a 4/4 measure all works just fine until I get to the last one. I can enter only the first two notes of the last triplet. Where the third note in the last triplet ought to go is a rest exactly half the value I need.

I discovered earlier that I need to put something in the next measure before I could finish that last triplet. I also discoverd sometimes it works if I enter the triplets in reverse order - put the last one in first, and to the left of it I put the second to last, etc.

Ending up with a rest half the value of the note I wish to enter is not my image of a good way to accomplish anything.

Did I just warp into an alternate universe?

Re: Tuplet issues

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MichaelTrumpetPlayer
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Post by MichaelTrumpetPlayer » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:58 am

Never mind. After searching the forum database and reading some previous messages I figured out the tuplet issue on my own.

In my case, I now click on "tools" then "simple entry" and within the simple entry box there is listed "tuplet" at the bottom. I now pick a rest of the value my individual triplet notes ought to be - for example replacing a quarter note with three eights, I select an eighth rest. Then I click four times in the measure to "claim" the space for my triplets. I go back in and add the pitches in the right places. It works for me with Finale 2007.

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miker
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Post by miker » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:10 am

There's an easier way. Look at the article Tuplets in Simple Entry at http://www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
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benbourlier
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by benbourlier » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:50 pm

to miker:

I am having several tuplet problems in addition to the above and your article does not address them:

- I enter 6 quarters in the space of 4 quarters and only 5 are generated (!?)
- I use the "hit 9" method to get a group of triplet quarter notes, but then go to change the value of one of them to two eighth notes and suddenly it eliminates the final eighth beat (i.e. what was 3 quarters is now 5 eighths total)!?

This function makes no sense and I am considering looking for open source software and starting my notation project all over due to this.

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motet
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:59 pm

For 6 quarters in the space of 4, don't use the separate Tuplet tool.

Enter the first quarter in Simple entry and press Alt-9 (not plain 9).
Last edited by motet on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:10 pm

To get a quarter-note triplet in which the quarter is broken into two eighths, after entering a quarter and setting up the triplet with Alt-9, instead of deleting the first quarter to replace it with eighths, use "change duration" to change the note to an eighth (Alt-4 is the shortcut). Then press 4 on the keypad to set up for eighths and enter that first pitch again. After that, you can complete the triplet normally.
Last edited by motet on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:12 pm

In theory you should be able to enter the first note as an eighth note, use Alt-9 to set up for three quarters in the space of two, then go on your merry way, but Simple entry in that situation seems to throw in an extra rest.

I don't blame you for thinking this is all arcane. You might consider Speedy entry, which does triplets better, though it has its own arcanity.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:32 pm

One more thought. You can use the separate tuplet tool if you enter all the notes first, then switch to the tuplet tool and click on the first note:
0366.png
0367.png
Last edited by motet on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:34 pm

In the situation where the notes won't all fit until they're turned into a tuplet, enter as many as you can, use the tuplet tool, then come back and finish:

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miker
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by miker » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:44 pm

Not so, motet. On a tuplet that overfills the measure (like on the last beat) my way still works.

Note >( Alt)(Opt) 9 > note > note.
Screen Shot 2020-04-19 at 12.42.22 PM.png
And when a rest hangs around, it's not there in the count. It's just a visual artifact. I arrow to it, and delete.
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motet
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:50 pm

Which is "not so"? I posted a bunch of stuff there. Your way doesn't overfill the measure, and I wasn't implying that that doesn't work.

Are you able to enter this one your way? Like I say, it added an extra rest when I tried it. One can delete it, of course, but it seems like a bug.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by miker » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:02 pm

I was saying not so to this: “In the situation where the notes won't all fit until they're turned into a tuplet, enter as many as you can, use the tuplet tool, then come back and finish:”

Yes, I can enter that triplet the same way. And you’re right, the extraneous rest is definitely not correct. (To my own mind, deleting it is not a problem. I save “bug” for things that will crash the program or lose my work.) Seeing as how its been that way for 20 years, and reported many, many times, I don’t look for a fix.
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motet
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:05 pm

I guess it's not an extra rest, but rather just misplaced. I guess one can use "change duration" and proceed from there, though it's likely to confuse a new user.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:08 pm

miker wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:02 pm
I was saying "not so" to this: “In the situation where the notes won't all fit until they're turned into a tuplet, enter as many as you can, use the tuplet tool, then come back and finish:”
I was saying that in regard to the separate-Tuplet-tool method, not Simple entry. I agree with you that "your way" is the way to go, but as we've seen, a lot of people don't get it, so I was just suggesting an alternative that perhaps is easier for them.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by ClyLunt » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:40 pm

I just ran it and had no issues. I entered the main sixteenth rest, and hit ALT+9. I set up the tuplet definition as 6-16ths in about 2-8ths. I entered the remainder of the notes and rests in the tuplet. Be that as it may, there is an issue with this where Finale may not overwrite the entirety of the placeholder rests in the tuplet arrangement. Along these lines, in the wake of entering your sextuplet, you need to choose and eradicate those pointless rests. At that point, you can enter your last sixteenth/specked eight figure.

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Last edited by ClyLunt on Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by miker » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:36 pm

Try setting it as 6-16ths in the space of 4-16ths, rather than 2-8ths. That seems to work better for me.
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motet
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:06 pm

Sometimes if you delete the rests in Simple Entry, it causes problems. Other times, if you leave them it causes problems. I reported these to MM a while back and they acknowledged the problems.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by miker » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:06 pm

I’ve got a number of “acknowledged problems.”

Still waiting...

Meanwhile, I would suggest not deleting rests within the tuplet. Once your notes are in, if there are any superfluous rests hanging on, you can safely delete those.
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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by zuill » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:10 pm

motet wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:06 pm
Sometimes if you delete the rests in Simple Entry, it causes problems. Other times, if you leave them it causes problems. I reported these to MM a while back and they acknowledged the problems.
They also responded to my several bug reports and they definitely recognized that there are serious design and/or programming issues that should be addressed.

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Re: Tuplet issues

Post by motet » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:53 pm

Are far as I know, tuplet handling in Speedy entry is bug-free.

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