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Transposing problem

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Transposing problem

Postby legitum » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:01 pm

I'm trying to transpose a piece of music from concert to Eb alto. I'm finding I have two problems when I try to do this:

i. The transposition is creating a lot of problematic accidentals, e.g. Fb, E#, Cb, B# etc. Is there an intelligent way of doing this so I don't then have to go through the entire piece of music and correct it?

ii. Not all of the notes and chord symbols are transposing a major 6th. For example, I've had an Ab7 chord symbol change to E7 and an Eb quarter note change to Cb. This is a real problem as I need to be confident that the transposition is exactly as it should be.

Whilst posting, is there a way to change accidentals to 'all flats' or all sharps'? At the moment i'm having to go through it note by note - a pain!

Thanks in advance

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Transposing problem

Postby Peter Thomsen » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:08 am

1) I suppose that you are still using Finale 2008?

2) Is the music notated with a key signature, or is it notated in "neutral key signature"?

3) Do you transpose with the Staff Tool (staff transposition), or with the Selection Tool (Utilities menu > Transpose...)?


A transposition like this one should be done with the Staff Tool, not with the Selection Tool.

"Staff" transposition will give you playback in the correct key (= in Concert Pitch), while "Selection Tool" transposition will give you playback in the wrong key (= in Written Pitch).
In Other Words:
"Staff" Transposition will make a written C play back as Concert Eb, while "Selection Tool" transposition will make a written C play back as Concert C.

Note that I mean the playback you hear, when you click the playback button, to hear notes already written.
Playback during note entry is a different story.

I suspect that problems like "a lot of problematic accidentals, e.g. Fb, E#, Cb, B# etc." are caused by the use of transposition with the Selection Tool and {Utilities menu > Transpose...}.


By The Way:
There IS a way to change accidentals to 'all flats' or all sharps'.
Set the Enharmonic Spelling to "Favor Flats" or "Favor Sharps", and run the command "Respell Notes" (Utilities menu).
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Postby legitum » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:09 pm

Hi,

Yes, I am using Finale 2008 and the music is notated in a neutral key signature. I had been transposing through the utilities menu.

I like the idea of using the staff tool, however cannot seem to get it to do what I want it to do.

To clarify, i'm seeking to transpose the music so it reads not as being in Cmaj but in Amaj. It sounds as though I might be doing it wrong, and if so, could you perhaps guide me how to resolve this? To confirm, its not the playback i'm concerned about, but rather how it reads. I've transcribed it straight from the recording in concert and wish to transpose it so an Eb alto player can play it.

Thanks also for the tip re accidentals. You have saved me a lot of time through that answer - I love this forum!

Here's another question i need some help with - Is there a way of copying and pasting a chord sequence over existing notation in such a way that it doesn't remove the notation or copy the notation from beneath the source block of chords. At the moment, when inputting chords over several choruses of solo I have to input each individual chord symbol. I'd like to have to do this just once if possible. Is it possible does anyone know?

Thank you again for any advice you can offer here.

Regards,

Andy
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Transposing problem

Postby Peter Thomsen » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:54 pm

legitum wrote:...I like the idea of using the staff tool, however cannot seem to get it to do what I want it to do.

To clarify, i'm seeking to transpose the music so it reads not as being in Cmaj but in Amaj. It sounds as though I might be doing it wrong, and if so, could you perhaps guide me how to resolve this?...
Do you want the Eb staff to display a key signature of Amaj (3 sharps)?
Or a "neutral key signature" (0 accidentals)?

Anyway, here are some steps:

1) Staff Tool.
Double-click the staff.

2) In the Staff Attributes, next to "Transposition", click the button "Select...".

3) In the dialog Staff Transpositions, click one of the radio buttons, to choose either "Key Signature" (if you want a key signature of Amaj) or "Chromatic" (if you want a "neutral key signature").

4) Use the pop up menu to choose your transposition.

For "Key Signature" transposition, choose "(Eb) Up M6, Add 3 Sharps".

For "Chromatic" transposition, choose "(Eb) Up M6".

Note that you can also force the staff transposition to display a specific clef.

If you want the Eb Alto staff to switch to another instrument (with another transposition) at some point in the music, use a staff style to change the staff transposition.



legitum wrote:...Here's another question i need some help with - Is there a way of copying and pasting a chord sequence over existing notation in such a way that it doesn't remove the notation or copy the notation from beneath the source block of chords. At the moment, when inputting chords over several choruses of solo I have to input each individual chord symbol. I'd like to have to do this just once if possible. Is it possible does anyone know?...

1) You can copy "only chord symbols" in this way:
Edit menu > Edit Filter...
In the dialog Edit Filter, de-select everything except "Chords & Fretboards".

However, in Finale 2008 chord symbols must be attached to entries.
You may loose a chord somewhere if the target region somewhere doesn't have an entry on the beat where the chord should be.
(In Finale 2010 and 2011 chord symbols are beat attached, and don't require a host entry)

Many Finale 2008 users attach their chord symbols to rests or notes in a hidden layer (usually Layer 4).
With this "chords in Layer 4" method you can safely copy chord symbols, by copying "Layer 4 only".
To copy "Layer 4 only", switch to Layer 4, and toggle "Show Active Layer Only" on.
"Show Active Layer Only" also means "Edit Active Layer Only".
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Postby legitum » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:40 pm

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply.

I've gone through all the steps for the transposition that you've set out here, but on clicking on ok it makes no difference to the sheet music on the page - i.e., it still reads in concert.

Is there a setting somewhere else within the programme that I perhaps need to change do you know?

Thanks,

Andy
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Transposing problem

Postby Peter Thomsen » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:07 pm

legitum wrote:Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply.

I've gone through all the steps for the transposition that you've set out here, but on clicking on ok it makes no difference to the sheet music on the page - i.e., it still reads in concert.

Is there a setting somewhere else within the programme that I perhaps need to change do you know?...

just a shot in the dark:

Document menu > Display in Concert Pitch
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Postby legitum » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:11 pm

Genius!

Only thing is the chord symbols aren't transposing as well. Is there a way to make this happen at the same time?
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Postby Warren Barnett » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:15 pm

legitum wrote:Genius!


Yes, Peter Thomsen is a Finale genius!!!

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Transppsing chords

Postby Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:32 pm

legitum wrote:...Only thing is the chord symbols aren't transposing as well. Is there a way to make this happen at the same time?

Utilities menu > Change > Chords...

Put a check mark at "Capo:", and enter '3' in the number field (Capo in fret 3 = Eb transposition).

PS:
In Finale 2010 and 2011 the chord symbols are beat attached (not note attached), and therefore the chords are automatically transposed when you change the staff transposition to a Chromatic Transposition.
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Postby legitum » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:04 pm

Thanks Peter...

I hope i'm nearing the end of this batch of questions now!:

- the chord symbols are transposing in italics - is there any way to stop that?

- the piece has transposed with lots of double sharps in it. It there a way of cleaning that up?

- what finale tutorial book would you recommend so I can stop bothering you!!?
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Transppsing chords

Postby Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:09 pm

legitum wrote:.. - the chord symbols are transposing in italics - is there any way to stop that?...

Chord Tool.
Chord menu > Italicize Capo Chords



legitum wrote:...- the piece has transposed with lots of double sharps in it. It there a way of cleaning that up?...

Do you mean the notes, or do you mean the chord symbols you have just transposed?
Please be more specific.
Give some examples.



legitum wrote:...- what finale tutorial book would you recommend so I can stop bothering you!!?

Have you watched the Finale videos?
Have you done the Finale tutorials?
There's a lot of good stuff in there, even for power users.

I haven't read any Finale books myself, but I have noticed that many Finale users recommend the "Trailblazer Guide".
URL:
http://www.trailblazerguides.com/
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Postby legitum » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:24 pm

Notes - for example, transposing from A# concert to F## in the Eb part. Is there a way of tranposing that to a G automatically?
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Respelling notes

Postby Peter Thomsen » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:44 am

legitum wrote:Notes - for example, transposing from A# concert to F## in the Eb part. Is there a way of tranposing that to a G automatically?

Utilities menu > Respell Notes

NB:
You can choose to respell only a selected region.
In the sub-menu "Enharmonic Spelling" there are the spelling options "Favor Sharps" and "Favor Flats", but you can also choose "Use Default Spelling", or a specific, user customized spelling table.

In Other Words:
You can respell the notes with diffferent spelling tables in different regions of the music.
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Postby legitum » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:25 pm

Great - almost there...

Having transposed thechord via the Capo option I have a D# chord appear where I'd like an Eb. Its time consuming chaging it manually - is there a way of favouring flats in relation to chords in this situation?
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Respelling chords

Postby Peter Thomsen » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:10 pm

legitum wrote:...Having transposed the chord via the Capo option I have a D# chord appear where I'd like an Eb. Its time consuming chaging it manually - is there a way of favouring flats in relation to chords in this situation?

I'm not sure it's faster than changing it manually, but you can drag-select the beat with the D# chord, and go to

Utilities menu > Change > Chords...
In the dialog box Change Chord Assignments, click the button "Transpose...".

In the dialog box Transposition, choose
Direction: Up
Method: Chromatically
Interval: Diminished Second

This solution is an advantage when you want to change other "Sharp chords" to "Flat chords", since Finale will remember your choices in the dialog box Transposition.
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Re: Transposing problem

Postby ugoldstein88888888 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:14 am

I'm currently composing a waltz in D major and no matter what key or piece I compose in, when I try to transpose a set of measures or notes and I type in 1 octave, the program always transfers my notes 2 octaves in the direction that I selected. When I select the option to go back 1 octave into what I wanted for the transposition, the notes end up in the right place/octave. However, this is an annoying, 2-step process required for every time I want to transpose something. This problem is relatively new and it might have resulted from an update of some sort. I currently have Finale 2014.5, is there anything I can do to fix the problem?
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Re: Transposing problem

Postby zuill » Tue May 22, 2018 5:53 am

What are you doing to attempt to transpose 1 octave?

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Re: Transposing problem

Postby miker » Tue May 22, 2018 2:00 pm

What is your Mac OS?
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Re: Transposing problem

Postby motet » Tue May 22, 2018 5:52 pm

Make sure "Plus x octaves" is 0 as shown below.

An easier way to transpose an octave is to select the measure with the selection tool and press 9 (above O on the keyboard, not the keypad).
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