Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always show"

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dankreider
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Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always show"

Post by dankreider » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:34 pm

clef.png
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I'm creating theory worksheets in Finale.

As you can see above, I want two exercises per line, which I accomplish by making three measures, Staff--> Cutaway to hide the middle measure. I can force the clef to show in the third measure, and I can make it after the barline... but Finale places it after the key signature as well. Arg.

Is there a way I can force the clef to show after the barline, but before the key signature?

Thanks!
Dan
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always show"

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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by miker » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:51 pm

I did it by creating a Coda system, and hiding the graphic elements, courtesy changes, etc.

You can also do it by putting one measure on a system, shortening the two systems horizontally (one right and one left) and changing the system margins.
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by dankreider » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:55 pm

Thanks Mike! Exactly what I was looking for.
clef.png
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But as you can see from the example, I'm going to need to do it more than once. Does this plugin support that? "Coda" seems like a single-shot solution.

Edit: never mind. The answer is yes.
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by dankreider » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:08 pm

Aaaaaand it's beautiful. Thanks!
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by zuill » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:11 pm

Using the Coda plugin just automates things. No need to do it that way. Just do it manually when all the systems are done.

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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by dankreider » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:15 pm

What do you mean exactly? I tried doing it manually, but how do I get around the key signature - clef order?
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by zuill » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:26 pm

By manually, I meant dragging one system up next to another. So, you still put each measure on its own system. The Coda plugin does this automatically for you. By manually, I meant the part about dragging. You would need to uncheck to avoid margin collision, or Finale won't let you. So, maybe using the plugin is easier, but I've always done it the other way.

You can also do it by putting 4 measures on a system, hiding the second measure, and by putting the clef before the barline. Then create a style for the 3rd bar to avoid the default rest and barline. Lastly, drag the 4th bar handle over to the left to make it look like there is only one bar (combo of 3 and 4). The advantage for me this way is that it is easier to get the look to align. The other way takes more patience.

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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by dankreider » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:30 pm

Hmm, I like the sound of that last one. I'll have to remember that, thanks. #finalehacks
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by miker » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:02 pm

Isn't that what I said?
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by zuill » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:06 pm

I guess I missed that suggestion. I can't find the post.

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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by miker » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:34 am

I said it in my early response. I just didn't go into as much detail as you did.

Not a problem.
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by zuill » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:09 am

The method I described is different than both of the methods you described. Both of yours have each measure on a different system. I have both measures on the same system.

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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by maybedave » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:33 am

The way I've done it - which seems to be suggested above - is to have an extra measure just for the clef. Then put the key signature in the next measure and drag the measures around.

Is there a way that each system can be perfectly spaced like the system above, without having to manually drag the measures to match?

Thanks!
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:12 am

maybedave wrote:… Is there a way that each system can be perfectly spaced like the system above, without having to manually drag the measures to match?…
You can set the system positioning precisely via the dialog box Edit System Margins.

Warning:
Using the dialog box Edit System Margins is definitely not for “Finale beginners”.
The layout calculations require deep understanding of the three scaling percentages (= Page Scaling, System Scaling,
Staff Scaling), and how they work.

This graphic, created by Finale user Doug Blackmore, may be of some help.
PageFormatting.pdf.zip
(23.13 KiB) Downloaded 77 times
Hint:
The layout calculations are simpler if you use small Measurement Units, like Points or EVPUs.
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by maybedave » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:26 pm

Hi Mr. Thomsen,

Sorry if I'm just not understanding your answer, but I think we're talking about two different things here. I guess I'm really asking two separate questions about a file similar to the one I've attached:

1. Is there a way to make just the visible measures the same width? In other words, how can I get all of these to look evenly spaced out?

2. Once I've set that up, is there a way to get the measures in the following staves to be spaced exactly like the one above it? So far I've been manually dragging bar lines to match up, but that's very time consuming and not perfectly accurate.

Thanks!
Dave

P.S. Miker, this file shows the sort of "extra measure for the clef" thing I was talking about. Probably not the most elegant solution, but it's worked for me so far...
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:31 pm

maybedave wrote:Hi Mr. Thomsen …
1. Is there a way to make just the visible measures the same width? In other words, how can I get all of these to look evenly spaced out? …
maybedave wrote:Hi Mr. Thomsen …
2. Once I've set that up, is there a way to get the measures in the following staves to be spaced exactly like the one above it? So far I've been manually dragging bar lines to match up, but that's very time consuming and not perfectly accurate …
I was talking about the other solution, with separate systems (and no invisible measures).

See the attached Finale document.
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by maybedave » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:17 pm

Wow a much more elegant solution than what I've been doing. THANK YOU!
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Re: Issue with clef showing after key signature on "always s

Post by zuill » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:00 pm

What I had warned about earlier is that, with the option to avoid margin collision off, there is the need to do the manual positioning, which as Peter pointed out, manageable if done by the numbers. Either method used, there's always work to do. It just depends on how one wants to go about it.

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