New upgrade to Finale.
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1445
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
Since Dorico 2 has hit the market does it seem to all that MM has been a while in doing an upgrade? IE, adding any new features? It does to me.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- miker
- Posts: 6040
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
One would hope that new releases for Finale would be driven by when they are ready for use, and not by when the competition does something.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1445
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
One would hope. However, one can't let the competition get too far ahead. Those that can't compete and excel line the trash dumps with their should-a could-a.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- miker
- Posts: 6040
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
If they were forced into a half-baked release, imagine the screams when we found all the times it didn’t work.
No thank you. I’ll wait until it’s done.
No thank you. I’ll wait until it’s done.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
-
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:24 pm
- Finale Version: 25.2
- Operating System: Windows
Seems like a long time to me too. Also, MM no longer has a presence on their Feature Request forum, as Michael Johnson has apparently left the company some months ago. Doesn't leave me feeling warm and cozy, with MM now owned by non-musicians.
Finale 25, Overture, Sibelius, Notion, Cubase, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1792
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
Didn't Make Music announce a few years ago that major paid upgrades would appear about every 2 years? That would be 3-4 months from now, as they seem to release every autumn.
N.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
I had wondered. That is bad news indeed. "I will document that feature request as no. 12,345." takes on new meaning.Bill Reed wrote:Michael Johnson has apparently left the company some months ago.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1445
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
If they fall too far behind they may be "done" already.No thank you. I’ll wait until it’s done.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- motet
- Posts: 8352
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
If you click on "Support" at https://www.finalemusic.com/ you get "502 Bad Gateway nginx." Hopefully this is temporary (I was in quest of a Mac version of the manual).
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
That link takes me to the MakeMusic website.
You can access the Windows manual directly from Finale. Once there, just change the Win in the address to Mac, and you'll have the Mac documentation.
Zuill
You can access the Windows manual directly from Finale. Once there, just change the Win in the address to Mac, and you'll have the Mac documentation.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- motet
- Posts: 8352
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
Thanks==that's what I ended up doing.
The link above works, but if you click "Support" you get the error, as I said. This is the URL:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us#finale
The link above works, but if you click "Support" you get the error, as I said. This is the URL:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us#finale
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
The links go down regularly over weekends.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Wouldn't surprise me if MM were working on a intelligent collision avoidance. Finale is the last major notation program not to have such a feature; Sibelius has its magnetic layout and Dorico already does this very well by default. I can also imagine their trying to implement an intelligent way of stacking articulations, also in an attempt to keep up with the competition. I can imagine that these two features are high on most users' wish list and that MM knows this.
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 26, Sibelius 4 - 7, Dorico 2.2
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Jari's plugins
MacOS 10.14.2
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2018) 16 GB
Amsterdam
Finale 3.2 - 26, Sibelius 4 - 7, Dorico 2.2
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Jari's plugins
MacOS 10.14.2
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2018) 16 GB
Amsterdam
-
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:20 pm
- Finale Version: V25 on windows 10 64
- Operating System: Windows
when 25 was offered it was stated that we should upgrade to because the great refactor allowed more frequent upgrades. when's the last time we had an upgrade? at this point, I have to say it was a waste of money to purchase the upgrade.miker wrote:One would hope that new releases for Finale would be driven by when they are ready for use, and not by when the competition does something.
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1792
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
You've repeatedly asked the same questions and made the same comments. I think many share your position. I don't think anyone on this forum knows enough to comment. Why not contact Make Music with your concerns?jzucker wrote:when 25 was offered it was stated that we should upgrade to because the great refactor allowed more frequent upgrades. when's the last time we had an upgrade? at this point, I have to say it was a waste of money to purchase the upgrade.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
I think we all agree that FInale's scoring AI is so absurdly deficient that there are no words to describe it, but is it a below-the-waterline vulnerability? The Finale people, who have apparently invested little in improving its score quality since I began using it (1990's), obviously don't think so. Otherwise they'd fix it. They expect if we want good score production, we'll hire a copyist, or buy the Dorico crossgrade and port our compositions over via MusicXML. That's my plan. (Side note: I was in touch with the score manager for a European music publisher known for its perfect scores: they use an out-of-publication application and won't touch Finale. They are watching Dorico with interest, and told me last week that it's still 'not ready.' They have contractors that use Finale, from whom whom they get good scores - but they pay much higher rates for these contractors.)
HERE'S WHAT FINALE GETS RIGHT: My audio renditions from my scores are amazing. As a not-famous arranger, this is very important to me. The Garritan libraries, with the Aria player, comprise a powerful modeling capability at affordable prices; yes, you can do as well on Steinberg (and EW) but at what cost of time, effort, and money? I recently tried a Cubase 9.5 demo hosting Finale through Rewire - but honestly? I got a better result from my own native Finale rig and audacity. Better in every respect (I hate losing the serrated growl of the 16ft Faggot from the GCPO library - something that did not survive teleportation to Cubase.) So Finale stays in the top drawer of my toolbox.
HERE'S WHAT FINALE GETS RIGHT: My audio renditions from my scores are amazing. As a not-famous arranger, this is very important to me. The Garritan libraries, with the Aria player, comprise a powerful modeling capability at affordable prices; yes, you can do as well on Steinberg (and EW) but at what cost of time, effort, and money? I recently tried a Cubase 9.5 demo hosting Finale through Rewire - but honestly? I got a better result from my own native Finale rig and audacity. Better in every respect (I hate losing the serrated growl of the 16ft Faggot from the GCPO library - something that did not survive teleportation to Cubase.) So Finale stays in the top drawer of my toolbox.
Finale 27.4.1 (since 2.6.3)
MacOS 14 Sonoma - a blunder
MacMini i7x6 32gb RAM + two 2 TB nvme SSD's
GPO5 / GCPO / EW Symphonic Choirs / Modern Scoring Brass / Chris Hein Ensemble Strings / Fisk organ (O-Forbes)
Cubase Elements / Studio One Pro
MacOS 14 Sonoma - a blunder
MacMini i7x6 32gb RAM + two 2 TB nvme SSD's
GPO5 / GCPO / EW Symphonic Choirs / Modern Scoring Brass / Chris Hein Ensemble Strings / Fisk organ (O-Forbes)
Cubase Elements / Studio One Pro
- michelp
- Posts: 2066
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
- Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
- Operating System: Mac
Artificial intelligence ?
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
That's all AI is - did they anticipate your question or need? Examples such as those demonstrated by Dorico: preventing overlapping articulations, or applying a hairpin to a selected group of notes. (There is never going to be anything actually intelligent about whatever artificial solution anyone comes up with - not even the legendary Elon Musk.) After 22 years with Finale, I would expect my original manuals - printed in three volumes - would be out of date; for score layout, not much has changed. But as I said, Finale's audio production is simply fantastic. And score management (parts, not layout) is also pretty good.
Finale 27.4.1 (since 2.6.3)
MacOS 14 Sonoma - a blunder
MacMini i7x6 32gb RAM + two 2 TB nvme SSD's
GPO5 / GCPO / EW Symphonic Choirs / Modern Scoring Brass / Chris Hein Ensemble Strings / Fisk organ (O-Forbes)
Cubase Elements / Studio One Pro
MacOS 14 Sonoma - a blunder
MacMini i7x6 32gb RAM + two 2 TB nvme SSD's
GPO5 / GCPO / EW Symphonic Choirs / Modern Scoring Brass / Chris Hein Ensemble Strings / Fisk organ (O-Forbes)
Cubase Elements / Studio One Pro
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
Some of us have come to that conclusion on our own.They are watching Dorico with interest, and told me last week that it's still 'not ready.'
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
-
- Posts: 1318
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:59 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27
- Operating System: Mac
I've come to the conclusion that it's more ready than Finale ever will be. I'm now doing all my new work in Dorico, and even re-setting some existing works.MikeHalloran wrote:Some of us have come to that conclusion on our own.They are watching Dorico with interest, and told me last week that it's still 'not ready.'
If anyone wants a more detailed explanation of the reasons for my decision, I'll provide it, but I don't think it's fair to evangelise another product here without invitation.
However, the long and short is: I'll be a less frequent visitor here, and a more frequent visitor on the Dorico forum.
It's been a fun 20 years. Be seeing you.
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1792
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
I have regularly monitored the Dorico Forum for the past 2 years and have owned the software for the past year, so I'm pretty sure I know why you've made your decision. It is absolutely beautifully designed, produces great output, and all the features are fully fleshed out and 100% functional.BuonTempi wrote:If anyone wants a more detailed explanation of the reasons for my decision, I'll provide it, but I don't think it's fair to evangelise another product here without invitation.
However, for my needs, Finale still wins, hands down. My workflow depends heavily on the Selection Tool. Combine this tool with the associated Finale Utilities, plugins, and third party plugins and I have productivity that blows Dorico out of the water. The output is generally on par with Dorico, for the type of music I engrave (educational band, jazz and string orchestra).
Still, I'm glad I invested in Dorico and plan to continue upgrading and learning the software as much as I can. Who knows what the future holds?
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
Yep. Not saying, No to Dorico.However, for my needs, Finale still wins, hands down. ... I have productivity that blows Dorico out of the water. The output is generally on par with Dorico, for the type of music I engrave ...
I am saying, not yet and only maybe not ever. It doesn't meet my needs. Perhaps it never will. Finale, OTOH, does. I am quite happy with the output.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro