solo cadenza in orchestra parts question
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- Michel R E
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I have a question to which I can't seem to find an answer, or at least, I can't seem to word it properly to get a response from google.
I have a score for a violin concerto.
The cadenza changes time signatures constantly. This means that the rests in the orchestral parts also reflect these constant changes in time signature (in other words, I have bits and pieces of 2-measure MM rests interspersed with single measures of different time signatures).
It makes for a messy orchestral part (and also takes up a lot more room in the parts than I would like).
would it be wrong for me to use "independent time signatures" to basically make the entire orchestra part in 4/4 during the cadenza, allowing me to make one single MM rest for the entire duration of the cadenza? (there is a 3-measure cue at the end of the cadenza to indicate what the soloist will be playing before the orchestral entrance)
I have a score for a violin concerto.
The cadenza changes time signatures constantly. This means that the rests in the orchestral parts also reflect these constant changes in time signature (in other words, I have bits and pieces of 2-measure MM rests interspersed with single measures of different time signatures).
It makes for a messy orchestral part (and also takes up a lot more room in the parts than I would like).
would it be wrong for me to use "independent time signatures" to basically make the entire orchestra part in 4/4 during the cadenza, allowing me to make one single MM rest for the entire duration of the cadenza? (there is a 3-measure cue at the end of the cadenza to indicate what the soloist will be playing before the orchestral entrance)
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- John Ruggero
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That would not be wrong at all, because it is the way cadenzas, both measured and unmeasured, are generally handled in the parts of concertos. Take a look at some of the standard concertos at IMSLP, like the Brahms Piano Concerto no. 1.
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- Michel R E
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I did try looking at some concerti, but none of them had any time signature changes during the cadenza.. they had unmeasured measures, which still appear as 4/4 (or whatever the concerto is in).
but thank-you, I will do this because damn it will save on page turns!!
but thank-you, I will do this because damn it will save on page turns!!
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- motet
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I think what I would do would be to apply a staff style to the parts that hides most everything (see below for something similar I do with tacet movements) and then cram all those measures together into a small space. You will end up with a blank "measure" which you could label cadenza. You'll also need a version of the staff style for the very last measure which shows the barline.
If you go the multimeasure rest route, you may want to suppress the number, which won't be of much use to the player without the meter changes.
If you go the multimeasure rest route, you may want to suppress the number, which won't be of much use to the player without the meter changes.
motet wrote:I think what I would do would be to apply a staff style to the parts that hides most everything (see below for something similar I do with tacet movements) and then cram all those measures together into a small space. You will end up with a blank "measure" which you could label cadenza. You'll also need a version of the staff style for the very last measure which shows the barline.
If you go the multimeasure rest route, you may want to suppress the number, which won't be of much use to the player without the meter changes.
...and create a Smart Shape multimeasure rest and drag it wherever you want.
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- Michel R E
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simpler would just be to redefine the number for that MM rest as something off the page, no?
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- David Ward
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Yes!Michel R E wrote:simpler would just be to redefine the number for that MM rest as something off the page, no?
Last edited by David Ward on Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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If it is cadenza, I don't believe anyone is concerning counting the measures.
Write just "tacet" or "cadenza" and that's it (as proposed by Motet above).
Write just "tacet" or "cadenza" and that's it (as proposed by Motet above).
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- N Grossingink
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One of Robert Patterson's plugins force hides Multimeasure Rests over a passage with time changes.
N.
N.
N. Grossingink
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Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
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Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
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- zuill
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If you apply a staff style to the part that suppresses the time signature for those measures, Finale then allows you to create a MM rest in the part.
Zuill
Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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- N Grossingink
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Useful information - thanks.zuill wrote:If you apply a staff style to the part that suppresses the time signature for those measures, Finale then allows you to create a MM rest in the part.
Zuill
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- zuill
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In my example file, I did that, as well as duplicated the shape, then added the word Cadenza as part of the shape.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."