Piano composers, unite!
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
-
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
Really? There has to be more piano music written than any other type, right? Why are the piano-specific functions in Finale so convoluted and unhelpful? Please think about this and implement.
Pedal markings take WAY too long to choose and place. And some other things require ridiculously long workarounds.
For example, an apreggiated (as in guitar strum) chord takes these steps to notate:
Post by Djard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:00 am
You can also use the following steps, which are out of a manual I've written. The steps seem lengthy but they really only takes a few seconds to complete, unless you wish to define custom playback .
• Create Strum Marks:
Draw vertical lines, pointing up or down to indicate the
strum, with or without playback.
1. Enter the chords to strum.
2. Smart Shape Tool (upper icon menu) -> hold down "Ctrl"
key and click on "Custom Line Tool" ("?" icon in the
palette).
3. Scroll down and select straight line with arrow at one
end, pointing either left or right.
4. Double-click and hold down mouse button on second click.
5. Drag line up or down next to the chord, tilting the line
slightly left or right to determine the direction of the
arrow.
NOTE: Alternatively, you may place short lines with the
arrow heads above or below the chords if the longer
ones next to the chords appear to clutter the part.
6. Zoom in and drag handles for fine adjustment.
NOTE: The following steps add playback.
7. Articulation tool (upper icon menu).
8. Click on bottom note of chord -> scroll down and select
vertical wavy line.
9. Drag handles to superimpose the marking over the existing
directional strum marking.
NOTE: The length of the wavy line does not affect the
playback: the full chord will be played in an
arpeggiated fashion.
10. Right-click on handle of first chord in the rasgueo
that is strummed in direction of bass to treble ->
Edit Articulation Definition.
11. From "Playback Effect" drop-down menu, select "Change
Attack" set as follows:
- Top Note Value: 0
- Bottom Note Value: -256
NOTE: The units are 1024ths of a 1/4 note: -256 = start
chord roll 1/16th note duration early. The greater
the negative number, the earlier the arpeggiation
of the chord will start in playback. If you check
the "Values are percentages" box, a setting of -100%
would have the chord begin arpeggiation whatever the
value of the notes in the chord; e.g., if the chord
is written to ring for 1/16th note duration then a
setting of 100% would have the chord begin the
arpeggiation 1/16th note duration before top note,
which is the location of the chord in the measure.
NOTE: Do not set values greater than interval between
the arpeggiated chord and the preceding or
following notes; otherwise a conflict will occur.
12. OK -> repeat last two steps for the next two chords that
are strummed in the direction of bass to treble.
13. Right-click on handle of fourth chord in the rasgueo
that is strummed in direction of treble to bass ->
Edit Articulation Definition.
14. From "Playback Effect" drop-down menu, select "Change
Duration" and set as follows:
- Top Note Value: -256
- Bottom Note Value: 0
15. Right-click on handle -> uncheck "Show" or you may
leave the wavy line superimposed over the straight lines
if you wish; but make sure the placement of the vertical
wavy line does not obscure the pointing arrow.
Pedal markings take WAY too long to choose and place. And some other things require ridiculously long workarounds.
For example, an apreggiated (as in guitar strum) chord takes these steps to notate:
Post by Djard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:00 am
You can also use the following steps, which are out of a manual I've written. The steps seem lengthy but they really only takes a few seconds to complete, unless you wish to define custom playback .
• Create Strum Marks:
Draw vertical lines, pointing up or down to indicate the
strum, with or without playback.
1. Enter the chords to strum.
2. Smart Shape Tool (upper icon menu) -> hold down "Ctrl"
key and click on "Custom Line Tool" ("?" icon in the
palette).
3. Scroll down and select straight line with arrow at one
end, pointing either left or right.
4. Double-click and hold down mouse button on second click.
5. Drag line up or down next to the chord, tilting the line
slightly left or right to determine the direction of the
arrow.
NOTE: Alternatively, you may place short lines with the
arrow heads above or below the chords if the longer
ones next to the chords appear to clutter the part.
6. Zoom in and drag handles for fine adjustment.
NOTE: The following steps add playback.
7. Articulation tool (upper icon menu).
8. Click on bottom note of chord -> scroll down and select
vertical wavy line.
9. Drag handles to superimpose the marking over the existing
directional strum marking.
NOTE: The length of the wavy line does not affect the
playback: the full chord will be played in an
arpeggiated fashion.
10. Right-click on handle of first chord in the rasgueo
that is strummed in direction of bass to treble ->
Edit Articulation Definition.
11. From "Playback Effect" drop-down menu, select "Change
Attack" set as follows:
- Top Note Value: 0
- Bottom Note Value: -256
NOTE: The units are 1024ths of a 1/4 note: -256 = start
chord roll 1/16th note duration early. The greater
the negative number, the earlier the arpeggiation
of the chord will start in playback. If you check
the "Values are percentages" box, a setting of -100%
would have the chord begin arpeggiation whatever the
value of the notes in the chord; e.g., if the chord
is written to ring for 1/16th note duration then a
setting of 100% would have the chord begin the
arpeggiation 1/16th note duration before top note,
which is the location of the chord in the measure.
NOTE: Do not set values greater than interval between
the arpeggiated chord and the preceding or
following notes; otherwise a conflict will occur.
12. OK -> repeat last two steps for the next two chords that
are strummed in the direction of bass to treble.
13. Right-click on handle of fourth chord in the rasgueo
that is strummed in direction of treble to bass ->
Edit Articulation Definition.
14. From "Playback Effect" drop-down menu, select "Change
Duration" and set as follows:
- Top Note Value: -256
- Bottom Note Value: 0
15. Right-click on handle -> uncheck "Show" or you may
leave the wavy line superimposed over the straight lines
if you wish; but make sure the placement of the vertical
wavy line does not obscure the pointing arrow.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
an arpeggiated chord takes one step: press R while in the articulation chord, for "roll".
I have NO idea what you're going on about, but quoting Djard for anything is the last thing you want to do... he ignores ALL advice he's given, and insists on doing things in the most obtuse and round-about way possible, regardless if there's an easier way to do it in Finale.
For pedals, just assign metatools to them. It's stupidly easy.
I have NO idea what you're going on about, but quoting Djard for anything is the last thing you want to do... he ignores ALL advice he's given, and insists on doing things in the most obtuse and round-about way possible, regardless if there's an easier way to do it in Finale.
For pedals, just assign metatools to them. It's stupidly easy.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I believe the need is for a Roll articulation with an up arrow, and one with a down arrow. Unfortunately, with Finale, for rolls with up or down arrows, one must use a character available in fonts other than Maestro. And, those are not stretchable. So, it does take more work and the options are limited and convoluted.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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- Posts: 54
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
Hmmm....didn't know you could assign Metatools to a Smartline selection. Will figure it out. The directional strum markings still look convoluted to me.
My pedal markings are pretty complex. I don't use those archaic pedal markings that look like sheep.
And I don't come to this forum often enough to know what the various personalities are. I usually only go to forums where people are polite to each other.
My pedal markings are pretty complex. I don't use those archaic pedal markings that look like sheep.
And I don't come to this forum often enough to know what the various personalities are. I usually only go to forums where people are polite to each other.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
My mind boggles! As it happens, I live surrounded by sheep but none have ever made me think of pedal markings…Blacklab88 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:00 pm… … I don't use those archaic pedal markings that look like sheep… …
On topic, yes one can assign Metatools to Smartlines.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Well, you quote a post from 2012. That's seven years ago. That's ages in software development, even if we talk about Finale .Blacklab88 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:01 pmWhy are the piano-specific functions in Finale so convoluted and unhelpful? Please think about this and implement.
Pedal markings take WAY too long to choose and place. And some other things require ridiculously long workarounds.
For example, an apreggiated (as in guitar strum) chord takes these steps to notate:
Post by Djard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:00 am
You write that you use Finale 25. This gives you Metatools, Hotkeys and FinaleScript as a start to speed up your work. Get to know the PlugIn collections by Jari and Tobias. By using Autohotkey and/or JWLua, there are even more powerful tools available which significantly increase working speed.
Here's an example how JWLua can be used to insert pedal markings.
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
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- Posts: 54
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
Thanks for the help, everybody. Greatly appreciated.
I'll be back!
And David Ward, take a look at those archaic pedal symbols. When I took piano lessons at age 6, I couldn't understand why there were little sheep all over the page. Followed by stars. Check it out.
I'll be back!
And David Ward, take a look at those archaic pedal symbols. When I took piano lessons at age 6, I couldn't understand why there were little sheep all over the page. Followed by stars. Check it out.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
Well, I think I wouldn‘t count as a serious software guy, as I don‘t have any formal/academic education in that field. I teach trombone and piano and work as a freelancing musician. But I do code since my youth, and this applies to quite some musicians, as far as my experience goes. JWLua isn‘t easy, but in my opinion comparable to Autohotkey or VisualBasic or the like and thus feasible for the average tech savvy.
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
- gogreen
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:50 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4.1.146
- Operating System: Mac
Does that mean that some of the music you hear is baaaaaaaad?I live surrounded by sheep but none have ever made me think of pedal markings…
Sorry. I couldn't help myself on this one.
Art
Finale 27
NotePerformer, GPO5, COMB2
MacOS Ventura 13.6.6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BRHBTHT/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22Arthur+J.+Michaels%22&qid=1593016536&sr=8-2
Finale 27
NotePerformer, GPO5, COMB2
MacOS Ventura 13.6.6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BRHBTHT/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22Arthur+J.+Michaels%22&qid=1593016536&sr=8-2
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
You're all trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
Regarding the Ped. symbol, I never saw it as sheep's horns. I am so used to the symbols, and prefer them over the lines with spikes. However, one of my students asked, years ago, why it kept saying Leo, then an asterisk, then Leo followed by another asterisk. I had to get him to look closely that it was a fancy font that spelled Ped. Oh well. For me it was never anything but a pedal indication, not Leo. And definitely not sheep.
Zuill
Regarding the Ped. symbol, I never saw it as sheep's horns. I am so used to the symbols, and prefer them over the lines with spikes. However, one of my students asked, years ago, why it kept saying Leo, then an asterisk, then Leo followed by another asterisk. I had to get him to look closely that it was a fancy font that spelled Ped. Oh well. For me it was never anything but a pedal indication, not Leo. And definitely not sheep.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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- Posts: 54
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
Ha!
Okay. Maybe I needed glasses, but this looks like a lamb lying down. Of course, I live in a place where you actually SEE lambs, not just lamb chops.
Okay. Maybe I needed glasses, but this looks like a lamb lying down. Of course, I live in a place where you actually SEE lambs, not just lamb chops.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
Well, I suppose at a vivid stretch of the imagination, a Lacaune lamb might just…
There's no resemblance to the various Shetland, Suffolk, Cheviot, Texel cross-breads we mostly favour here that even my sometimes wacky imagination can engender. (I live right in the middle of a farm in Northern Scotland on which around 2,000 of this year's lambs are out for autumn grazing.)
There's no resemblance to the various Shetland, Suffolk, Cheviot, Texel cross-breads we mostly favour here that even my sometimes wacky imagination can engender. (I live right in the middle of a farm in Northern Scotland on which around 2,000 of this year's lambs are out for autumn grazing.)
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
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- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
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Ha! I was 6 at the time and kind of got by without reading notes until my teacher figured that out, so I imagine that images spoke more to me. Definitely a lamb.....
Seriously, the symbols don't work at all for modern pedaling...way too ambiguous.
Seriously, the symbols don't work at all for modern pedaling...way too ambiguous.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
- miker
- Posts: 6025
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Seeing the symbol enlarged like that, I can certainly see a ram, with curving horns. It looks more like a sheep than much of 20th century art looks like anything...
The lamb may lay down with the lion, but it won't sleep very soundly...
The lamb may lay down with the lion, but it won't sleep very soundly...
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
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- Finale Version: Finale 25
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Or as a ***** owner said about gamblers: "When a lion and a lamb are locked in a room together, sometimes the lamb comes out....but not very often."
By the way, I've assigned my most-used pedal markings to metatools, and my process has speeded up a lot. I just keep a card with drawings of the pedal markings and their assignment on my computer desk. Thanks to all the forum members for not throwing me out!
Just looked at my post. Why is c a s i n o blocked out?
By the way, I've assigned my most-used pedal markings to metatools, and my process has speeded up a lot. I just keep a card with drawings of the pedal markings and their assignment on my computer desk. Thanks to all the forum members for not throwing me out!
Just looked at my post. Why is c a s i n o blocked out?
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
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- Finale Version: Finale 25
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So I was going along merrily using my pedal metatools, left Finale for a day, loaded up an old file to work on, and when I went to use the metatools I had programmed, they had all been replaced with the defaults. What did I do?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6646
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- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Your pedal metatools are document specific, not program specific.Blacklab88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:32 pmSo I was going along merrily using my pedal metatools, left Finale for a day, loaded up an old file to work on, and when I went to use the metatools I had programmed, they had all been replaced with the defaults. What did I do?
Thanks.
To get your metatools in all new documents, add the metatools to the template you use, when you create new documents.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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Thanks, Peter.
This means that for any older score I open to edit or re-do, I have to create new pedal metatools.
Ah, well....ours is not to reason "why", eh?
This means that for any older score I open to edit or re-do, I have to create new pedal metatools.
Ah, well....ours is not to reason "why", eh?
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper
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Thanks, Zen. I don't understand the "politics" of getting a request to Finale and then getting them to change a rule. This seems like such an obvious mistake on their part. I am aware of how much it takes to change software, but really....
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper