Flared Hairpins

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: miker, Peter Thomsen

Post Reply
MowingDevil
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:23 am
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Mac

Flared Hairpins

Post by MowingDevil » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm

Any idea how to achieve hairpins that flare near the end of the shape?

Re: Flared Hairpins

by Sponsor

Forum Sponsor
 

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:51 pm

You can Drag it to be more open, but that will cause the entire Hairpin to be wider, not just the tip.
Probably can set the opening in Smart Shape Prefs.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 4560
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by motet » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 pm

I don't know of a way, other than making a custom shape.

User avatar
Michel R E
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by Michel R E » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:54 pm

there is a font that contains the symbols necessary.
I believe it's from Elbsound, the same people who make PerfectLayout.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
New convert to NotePerformer3.

MowingDevil
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:23 am
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by MowingDevil » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:48 pm

Ah, any idea which font? I purchased their font package and there's quite a few.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 4560
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by motet » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:06 pm

Looks like Sibelius's Opus Special font has flares. You can get it with the Sibelius demo. I had to make Finale's hairpins thicker to match. Somewhat funky behavior with regard to zoom level. Maybe the Elbsound option is better.
Attachments
0192.png
0192.png (90.66 KiB) Viewed 1599 times

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:13 pm

That looks weird!
What is the point/purpose?
A sudden increase at the last second?
Then why not just write Molto Cresc instead?

User avatar
motet
Posts: 4560
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by motet » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:48 pm

Yes, a sudden burst at the end. "molto crescendo" just means to crescendo a lot, and doesn't quite describe it.

User avatar
miker
Posts: 4542
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by miker » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:26 pm

It actually makes sense. Maybe that’s a feature request for the future.
Finale 26 | SmartScorePro X2
Mac OS 10.13 High Sierra
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
motet
Posts: 4560
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by motet » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm

Looks like it's a feature in Dorico, though the rendering is not attractive, in my opinion:

https://steinberg.help/dorico/v2/en/dor ... ing_t.html
Attachments
dynamics_hairpin_flared_end_shown.png
dynamics_hairpin_flared_end_shown.png (2.85 KiB) Viewed 1541 times

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:54 am

I have never seen that symbol in any music I've ever seen or played.
Lately here I've notice that people seem to need to re-invent music notation.
A shorter Hairpin after a longer one , with cresc molto would serve, and not cause the player to
ask the Conductor what it meant.

MowingDevil
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:23 am
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by MowingDevil » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:39 am

Actually no it wouldn't, your description adds unnecessary clutter. It does make sense and is more common than you're aware of.

MowingDevil
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:23 am
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by MowingDevil » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:40 am

motet wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Looks like it's a feature in Dorico, though the rendering is not attractive, in my opinion:

https://steinberg.help/dorico/v2/en/dor ... ing_t.html
Agreed, I've seen much more elegant renderings by hand.

User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 2012, 25.3
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by N Grossingink » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:09 am

Among brass players, this particular device has a name. It's called a "BRAP!".
N. Grossingink
Department of Public Works Music Engraving Inspector - Milwaukee, WI


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.12.6
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.2
Dorico 3.1

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:36 pm

Let's see, been a Professional Musician since 1963, play in SF Sym, Opera, Ballet, Recording Gigs, Movies, Cds etc.
Never seen it.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 4560
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by motet » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:58 pm

Perhaps it's from a different genre than you have experience in--jazz, avante garde, who knows. I've never seen feathered beams or stemlets, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:20 pm

Been there, done that too-
It just seems unnecessary, and will likely lead to wasted time in rehearsal.
Or not.
Just write BLAT, that should cover it!

User avatar
motet
Posts: 4560
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by motet » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:33 pm

To me, the flares are self-explanatory--"blat" certainly is not (if you're being serious).

It's a big world, and you probably haven't seen it all. The fact that the flares are a feature of Dorico, and are in Sibelius's Opus and other music fonts should clue you in that the O.P. here is not reinventing musical notation. Best to just try to answer peoples' questions, I think.
Last edited by motet on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:36 pm

OK.

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.2.2
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by David Ward » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:26 pm

FWIW (not much perhaps) I have occasionally written those flares in manuscript (in which they are easy - natural even) as far back as the 1960s. No questions were asked in rehearsal when reproduced in hand-copied parts nor were comments made: they were just played as intended. Somehow they seem more awkward and contrived when typeset. I've never attempted them in Finale.
Finale 25.5 & 26.2.2
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

User avatar
MikeHalloran
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
Finale Version: 26.2
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by MikeHalloran » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:56 am

In my youth, when I was a brass player, I’d have known what that meant.

As a string player, I’d think, “What brass player wrote this? Bows don’t have that kind of dynamic range.”

As a singer, my throat would hurt just looking at that.

As a conductor, I’m ok with it but would hope I see it only as a brass marking — although a percussion roll would work, too, especially bass drum, tympani or tam-tam... yea, percussion would be cool.

I think that if it had occurred to Wagner, he and Strauss would have used it.
Mike Halloran

Finale 26.2, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
2017 iMac Pro 14 Core, 128G RAM, 2TB Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
NotePerformer3, Dorico3, Overture, Notion, Encore, DP 10, Logic Pro
Old G4: OS 10.4/9.2, Finale 1998–2011

oldmkvi
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Re: Flared Hairpins

Post by oldmkvi » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:13 pm

Funny, Mike! Great one!
LOL Outloud!

Post Reply