Tuplet issues
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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Sometimes it is easy for me to use the tuplet tool, but recently I've come up against a problem I can't handle.
When trying to enter, for example, four sets of triplets in a 4/4 measure all works just fine until I get to the last one. I can enter only the first two notes of the last triplet. Where the third note in the last triplet ought to go is a rest exactly half the value I need.
I discovered earlier that I need to put something in the next measure before I could finish that last triplet. I also discoverd sometimes it works if I enter the triplets in reverse order - put the last one in first, and to the left of it I put the second to last, etc.
Ending up with a rest half the value of the note I wish to enter is not my image of a good way to accomplish anything.
Did I just warp into an alternate universe?
When trying to enter, for example, four sets of triplets in a 4/4 measure all works just fine until I get to the last one. I can enter only the first two notes of the last triplet. Where the third note in the last triplet ought to go is a rest exactly half the value I need.
I discovered earlier that I need to put something in the next measure before I could finish that last triplet. I also discoverd sometimes it works if I enter the triplets in reverse order - put the last one in first, and to the left of it I put the second to last, etc.
Ending up with a rest half the value of the note I wish to enter is not my image of a good way to accomplish anything.
Did I just warp into an alternate universe?
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- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:01 am
Never mind. After searching the forum database and reading some previous messages I figured out the tuplet issue on my own.
In my case, I now click on "tools" then "simple entry" and within the simple entry box there is listed "tuplet" at the bottom. I now pick a rest of the value my individual triplet notes ought to be - for example replacing a quarter note with three eights, I select an eighth rest. Then I click four times in the measure to "claim" the space for my triplets. I go back in and add the pitches in the right places. It works for me with Finale 2007.
In my case, I now click on "tools" then "simple entry" and within the simple entry box there is listed "tuplet" at the bottom. I now pick a rest of the value my individual triplet notes ought to be - for example replacing a quarter note with three eights, I select an eighth rest. Then I click four times in the measure to "claim" the space for my triplets. I go back in and add the pitches in the right places. It works for me with Finale 2007.
- miker
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There's an easier way. Look at the article Tuplets in Simple Entry at http://www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
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to miker:
I am having several tuplet problems in addition to the above and your article does not address them:
- I enter 6 quarters in the space of 4 quarters and only 5 are generated (!?)
- I use the "hit 9" method to get a group of triplet quarter notes, but then go to change the value of one of them to two eighth notes and suddenly it eliminates the final eighth beat (i.e. what was 3 quarters is now 5 eighths total)!?
This function makes no sense and I am considering looking for open source software and starting my notation project all over due to this.
I am having several tuplet problems in addition to the above and your article does not address them:
- I enter 6 quarters in the space of 4 quarters and only 5 are generated (!?)
- I use the "hit 9" method to get a group of triplet quarter notes, but then go to change the value of one of them to two eighth notes and suddenly it eliminates the final eighth beat (i.e. what was 3 quarters is now 5 eighths total)!?
This function makes no sense and I am considering looking for open source software and starting my notation project all over due to this.
- motet
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For 6 quarters in the space of 4, don't use the separate Tuplet tool.
Enter the first quarter in Simple entry and press Alt-9 (not plain 9).
Enter the first quarter in Simple entry and press Alt-9 (not plain 9).
Last edited by motet on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- motet
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To get a quarter-note triplet in which the quarter is broken into two eighths, after entering a quarter and setting up the triplet with Alt-9, instead of deleting the first quarter to replace it with eighths, use "change duration" to change the note to an eighth (Alt-4 is the shortcut). Then press 4 on the keypad to set up for eighths and enter that first pitch again. After that, you can complete the triplet normally.
Last edited by motet on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- motet
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In theory you should be able to enter the first note as an eighth note, use Alt-9 to set up for three quarters in the space of two, then go on your merry way, but Simple entry in that situation seems to throw in an extra rest.
I don't blame you for thinking this is all arcane. You might consider Speedy entry, which does triplets better, though it has its own arcanity.
I don't blame you for thinking this is all arcane. You might consider Speedy entry, which does triplets better, though it has its own arcanity.
- motet
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One more thought. You can use the separate tuplet tool if you enter all the notes first, then switch to the tuplet tool and click on the first note:
Last edited by motet on Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- miker
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Not so, motet. On a tuplet that overfills the measure (like on the last beat) my way still works.
Note >( Alt)(Opt) 9 > note > note.
And when a rest hangs around, it's not there in the count. It's just a visual artifact. I arrow to it, and delete.
Note >( Alt)(Opt) 9 > note > note.
And when a rest hangs around, it's not there in the count. It's just a visual artifact. I arrow to it, and delete.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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- motet
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Which is "not so"? I posted a bunch of stuff there. Your way doesn't overfill the measure, and I wasn't implying that that doesn't work.
Are you able to enter this one your way? Like I say, it added an extra rest when I tried it. One can delete it, of course, but it seems like a bug.
Are you able to enter this one your way? Like I say, it added an extra rest when I tried it. One can delete it, of course, but it seems like a bug.
- miker
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I was saying not so to this: “In the situation where the notes won't all fit until they're turned into a tuplet, enter as many as you can, use the tuplet tool, then come back and finish:”
Yes, I can enter that triplet the same way. And you’re right, the extraneous rest is definitely not correct. (To my own mind, deleting it is not a problem. I save “bug” for things that will crash the program or lose my work.) Seeing as how its been that way for 20 years, and reported many, many times, I don’t look for a fix.
Yes, I can enter that triplet the same way. And you’re right, the extraneous rest is definitely not correct. (To my own mind, deleting it is not a problem. I save “bug” for things that will crash the program or lose my work.) Seeing as how its been that way for 20 years, and reported many, many times, I don’t look for a fix.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
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- motet
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I was saying that in regard to the separate-Tuplet-tool method, not Simple entry. I agree with you that "your way" is the way to go, but as we've seen, a lot of people don't get it, so I was just suggesting an alternative that perhaps is easier for them.
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I just ran it and had no issues. I entered the main sixteenth rest, and hit ALT+9. I set up the tuplet definition as 6-16ths in about 2-8ths. I entered the remainder of the notes and rests in the tuplet. Be that as it may, there is an issue with this where Finale may not overwrite the entirety of the placeholder rests in the tuplet arrangement. Along these lines, in the wake of entering your sextuplet, you need to choose and eradicate those pointless rests. At that point, you can enter your last sixteenth/specked eight figure.
order pcb
order pcb
Last edited by ClyLunt on Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- motet
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Sometimes if you delete the rests in Simple Entry, it causes problems. Other times, if you leave them it causes problems. I reported these to MM a while back and they acknowledged the problems.
- miker
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I’ve got a number of “acknowledged problems.”
Still waiting...
Meanwhile, I would suggest not deleting rests within the tuplet. Once your notes are in, if there are any superfluous rests hanging on, you can safely delete those.
Still waiting...
Meanwhile, I would suggest not deleting rests within the tuplet. Once your notes are in, if there are any superfluous rests hanging on, you can safely delete those.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
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- zuill
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They also responded to my several bug reports and they definitely recognized that there are serious design and/or programming issues that should be addressed.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."