Is anyone else having problems with GPO5 Timp?
Documentation says that Timp 3 is the version that includes KS sampled rolls, but it appears that Timp 1 is the instrument that includes those samples. (No big deal, but annoying.)
However...
Timp 1 is playing C2/C#2/D2 all as C#2, and then everything is 1/2 step flat up through C3; C#3 is the same pitch (literally B2, a whole step flat), and from D3 on up everything is 1/2 step lower again.
I get the same results with both the "n" and standard instruments loaded both in the standalone Aria and through Fin 25. I haven't touched the sfz files, and did an uninstall/reinstall to no effect.
Is it just me?
RVSL
GPO5 Timpani
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
-
dallascomposer
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:37 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 26.3.1.643
- Operating System: Mac
You are correct the GOP5 documentation is incorrect. (Also the documentation only covers the Standard Set. It includes no information on the alternate controllers that the Notation Set uses)
Timpani 1 KS is the one that includes the sampled rolls. Getting them to play in Finale is impossible without sending CC and KS information manually, as the Human Playback Sample Roll trigger does not work. It will merely send a repeated note, even if a sampled trigger is turned on. Even if it DID work, the sampled roll is two octaves above pitch, and HP triggers can only adjust the pitch up or down one octave max.
I have been battling the timpani issue for a couple hours and came here to look for help. Unfortunately, it seems that this is one of those things that isn't covered in the current HP settings.
It appears you can pick either correct notation, OR manual MIDI data. (Or create a hidden staff that plays back correctly, or a hidden layer, or export to Logic/DAW and tweak there)
Timpani 1 KS is the one that includes the sampled rolls. Getting them to play in Finale is impossible without sending CC and KS information manually, as the Human Playback Sample Roll trigger does not work. It will merely send a repeated note, even if a sampled trigger is turned on. Even if it DID work, the sampled roll is two octaves above pitch, and HP triggers can only adjust the pitch up or down one octave max.
I have been battling the timpani issue for a couple hours and came here to look for help. Unfortunately, it seems that this is one of those things that isn't covered in the current HP settings.
It appears you can pick either correct notation, OR manual MIDI data. (Or create a hidden staff that plays back correctly, or a hidden layer, or export to Logic/DAW and tweak there)
Finale 27.4.1.146
MacOS 14.4.1 (sonoma)
iMac 2019; 3 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5
Graphics: Radeon Pro 560X 4 GB
RAM: 8 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
MacOS 14.4.1 (sonoma)
iMac 2019; 3 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5
Graphics: Radeon Pro 560X 4 GB
RAM: 8 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
Hey there!
Sorry for your troubles, but it is good to know I'm not alone with this problem. Since my original post, I have figured out a few things. Garritan/Make Music/whoever threw in a couple of really sloppy quick fixes implementing the timpani patches.
First off, when you load timp 1 in doc setup or score manager, it actually references the 'timpani 3' sfz file. If your computer is running a little slow, you can actually see 'timpani 3' as the header in the progress window as it is loading. So the documentation table is correct after all!! (Kinda/sorta.) It will still show as Timpani 1 in the aria player bank window, but the actual instrument is definitely timpani 3.)
Second, the timp 3 (which loads when you choose timp 1) pitches were detuned by -101 cents in the sfz (timp 3) file, but not consistently. It was probably an attempt to correct for pitch instability in the lowest 5 or 6 samples, but why they applied up the full range I can't understand. In any case, that was a simple fix: remove any mention of "group_tune=-101" from the Timpani 3.sfz file.
As for the sampled rolls being notated in the wrong octave, that range normally maps to 'rh sticks' samples so that you can approximate left/right sticking when playing live; in that context I suppose it doesn't matter which 'hand' triggers the sampled rolls. But again, it is incredibly sloppy that they don't KS in the proper octave in the notation set. (Maybe that is because there is no separate notation sfz file for timp 3 - which is what is used when you choose timp1 - probably because all the key switches are in the midi 0 to 11 range anyway.)
As you suggest, there are workarounds with transposed staff styles or hidden layers, but they are indeed stupid. My current workaround is to use NP3 Timpani for most purposes. I suppose I could go in and create dedicated HP technique definitions, but the documentation on filtering for the correct instruments is non existent.
I hope this helps. (Or at least doesn't make matters worse!)
RVSL
Sorry for your troubles, but it is good to know I'm not alone with this problem. Since my original post, I have figured out a few things. Garritan/Make Music/whoever threw in a couple of really sloppy quick fixes implementing the timpani patches.
First off, when you load timp 1 in doc setup or score manager, it actually references the 'timpani 3' sfz file. If your computer is running a little slow, you can actually see 'timpani 3' as the header in the progress window as it is loading. So the documentation table is correct after all!! (Kinda/sorta.) It will still show as Timpani 1 in the aria player bank window, but the actual instrument is definitely timpani 3.)
Second, the timp 3 (which loads when you choose timp 1) pitches were detuned by -101 cents in the sfz (timp 3) file, but not consistently. It was probably an attempt to correct for pitch instability in the lowest 5 or 6 samples, but why they applied up the full range I can't understand. In any case, that was a simple fix: remove any mention of "group_tune=-101" from the Timpani 3.sfz file.
As for the sampled rolls being notated in the wrong octave, that range normally maps to 'rh sticks' samples so that you can approximate left/right sticking when playing live; in that context I suppose it doesn't matter which 'hand' triggers the sampled rolls. But again, it is incredibly sloppy that they don't KS in the proper octave in the notation set. (Maybe that is because there is no separate notation sfz file for timp 3 - which is what is used when you choose timp1 - probably because all the key switches are in the midi 0 to 11 range anyway.)
As you suggest, there are workarounds with transposed staff styles or hidden layers, but they are indeed stupid. My current workaround is to use NP3 Timpani for most purposes. I suppose I could go in and create dedicated HP technique definitions, but the documentation on filtering for the correct instruments is non existent.
I hope this helps. (Or at least doesn't make matters worse!)
RVSL
-
BuonTempi
- Posts: 1306
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:59 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27
- Operating System: Mac
I'm also discovering the joys of GPO Timpani right now. Not only are the Rolls in the wrong octave for notation playback, but they don't loop. For some reason, there's an instruction in the sfz file to turn down the volume on the rolls, making them needlessly quiet.
While it is possible to hack the sfz file to fix these issues, my take away is: use the GIFF Timpani KS instead. Mind you, both of them use Note Velocity for dynamics, so you can't cresc in a Roll anyway. And the tuning is terrible in all of them.
While it is possible to hack the sfz file to fix these issues, my take away is: use the GIFF Timpani KS instead. Mind you, both of them use Note Velocity for dynamics, so you can't cresc in a Roll anyway. And the tuning is terrible in all of them.
