Finale (v25) and fonts behind 255?

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OCTO
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Finale Version: 25
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Post by OCTO » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:56 am

Hello.
I try to edit a font and to add several symbols that I frequently use, but when I open it in Finale I cannot see anything behind 255 slot. How to achieve this?
(q. also here: https://notat.io/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=696 )
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OCTO
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Post by OCTO » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:07 pm

i have done some tests.
If I don't have the font name in Macsymbolfonts.txt my font looks weird but I can see the all symbols, but if I add it it looks good but I cannot reach behind 255. What I am doing wrong?
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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:51 pm

Dear OCTO, I am accustomed with this discussion.

I'd like to share with you and our colleagues my experience, reg. your font with additional characters.
For my own needs I had remapped the main (custom) font, exchanging it from "music" to "text" font.
Indeed, there is a known bug, that Finale (for Mac only) can not access slots between 128-159.
Instead of showing all glyphs of Windows 1250 ANSI (which is very similar to the "Default encoding— Western/Roman", except only 3 slots – "minus", "Zcaron" and "zcaron") Mac version displays Unicode 0080-009F.

These slots are not supposed to contain glyphs, but controls (and therefore the category they belong to is called "Controls"). In fact "Maestro" puts on these places several important elements, that could not be neglected, although some of them can be effortlessly substituted.

As our colleague Jan from notat.io suggests, there are good practical solutions.
For myself I've chosen the most appropriate for Finale, which may be is not the best for Dorico or even Sibelius.
Namely: all unaccessible glyphs have to be removed to another code page. In my case to "Type 1 World ISO 5889-5 Cyrillic".

In a beginning I was thinking to "throw" them into "Extended Latin1 or 2", but using (modified for Finale) US keyboard layout, that wouldn't lead to no good or to really huge number of diacritics, applying "death keys" with the "Opt. key" an so on.

The common Cyrillic script (used in Bulgarian, Serbian, Russian and many other languages) contains ca 32*2 simple characters (Caps and small) and is easily recognisable for millions of people (inc. those, that can encipher the characters without even understanding or speaking the aforementioned languages). Many characters are either the same as Latin or easily found on Phonetic Layouts (BG, RU etc.).

In addition – there are no slots in ISO 5889 encoding, where even single glyph overlaps an existing symbol from ANSI (Western Latin).
In order to make the access (to these extended slots) easier, I programmed ca 70 ligatures and over 360 kernings for the most important symbols or for those of them, that time to time have to be input as "Text expressions" (without switching to any external keyboard layout).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/64ccfv72828jc ... s.pdf?dl=0

Avoiding SMuFL is another story and I will explain "Why", specially here, in Finale forum.
E000-FF00 is enormously large space for storing symbols etc. But there is no easy way to access thousands of glyphs by typing on the computer keyboard, except using custom keyboard layout or typing unicodes, which is a pain.
Alternatively, the font can be supplied with ligatures, but this is again a step back to the times of DOS.
Apart form that, scrolling through thousand of slots, loaded with almost useless (from my point of view) symbols, leads to missing focus.
________

Back to "ANSI+ISO 5889" version of the font.
I attempted many tests, being merciless to the file. As a result - in the already existing Finale score, the above mentioned symbols from 128-159 (such as double sharp, double flat, tenuto+accents etc.) had to be substituted. I was surprised that this procedure did not take too much time. I had to check the Articulations, Expressions and Smart shapes.

As for the installation: it's simple and does not require adding font name in "MacSymbolFont.txt"

Last words of advise:
if you are going to build a font, because you need (frequently or permanently) to change the note heads, since in contemporary compositions this is a "must" :), I would suggest placing the important symbol(s) (i.e. quarter, half and whole note heads) on a convenient (accessible by typing single letter or with shift, eventually opt. key) slot, followed immediately by all it's stylistic alternations (for short "salt").
Thus you can select everything you need almost in an instant, instead of scrolling up and down, lurking for the right music symbol.

At last – OCTO, when you create your extended font, do not underestimate the metrics and additional features (kernings, ligatures etc.) – they always bring consistency, distinction to the layout and personal satisfaction during the engraving in Finale.

best,
Wess
Attachments
Finale akyboard layout for MAC.png
Finale akyboard layout for MAC.png (4.03 KiB) Viewed 2007 times
Maestro.png
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

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OCTO
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Post by OCTO » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:06 am

Thanks Wessmusic!
This is perhaps one of the most important answers on Finale's fonts here. I will print it and save it!
wessmusic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:51 pm
Avoiding SMuFL is another story and I will explain "Why", specially here, in Finale forum.
E000-FF00 is enormously large space for storing symbols etc. But there is no easy way to access thousands of glyphs by typing on the computer keyboard, except using custom keyboard layout or typing unicodes, which is a pain.
Alternatively, the font can be supplied with ligatures, but this is again a step back to the times of DOS.
Apart form that, scrolling through thousand of slots, loaded with almost useless (from my point of view) symbols, leads to missing focus.
This is so accurate explanation. SMuFL has a good basic idea, but SMuFL causes so much pain to me as well.
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wessmusic
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by wessmusic » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:39 am

Dear OCTO,

Thank you for continuing to encourage me.
However, I began converting my custom fonts into SMuFL, since during last few months almost half of my customers are asking me if the fonts are going to be SMuFL-ised soon.

Best,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:57 pm

wessmusic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:51 pm
Apart form that, scrolling through thousand of slots, loaded with almost useless (from my point of view) symbols, leads to missing focus.
Trying to browse and select any glyph from among thousands using Finale's Character Selection dialog is painful, certainly.

We can only wait for a SMuFL-compatible version of Finale, which would hopefully (like Dorico) have drop-down menus for the SMuFL groups: Clefs, Noteheads, Rests, etc -- allowing you to select a smaller, relevant, subset of glyphs.
Screenshot.png
Screenshot.png (24.34 KiB) Viewed 1931 times
wessmusic wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:39 am
during last few months almost half of my customers are asking me if the fonts are going to be SMuFL-ised soon.
Interesting. It can only be uptake of Dorico driving that. (MuseScore can't use custom SMuFL fonts: only a prescribed list.)

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wessmusic
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by wessmusic » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:18 pm

Trying to browse and select any glyph from among thousands using Finale's Character Selection dialog is painful, certainly.
We can only wait for a SMuFL-compatible version of Finale, which would hopefully (like Dorico) have drop-down menus for the SMuFL groups: Clefs, Noteheads, Rests, etc -- allowing you to select a smaller, relevant, subset of glyphs.
It's unbelievable, but today morning I was thinking exactly about that.
In fact there is a primitive way, copying Dorico typing manner — for instance pressing Shift m immediately followed by 4/4 or just M4/4. For those that are familiar with font creativity this looks as ligatura, but as an imbedded script within Dorico, not inside the font itself.
If one has to learn all Dorico commands in order to get Bravura's symbols working with Finale, it would be more convenient simply to purchase Dorico!

From other hand, Finale is very well organised, considering the freedom for building different categories inside the Expression tool, where each one could have its own font collection. I don't know if Dorico allows has such possibility — using one font for articulation (plus many others from the pop-up window), another for Text, third for...

When the setting are predefined it's not so important if the program is digging in a single font (with more than 3500 glyphs) or amongst 17 fonts with 223 characters in each one. I just checked, that for the score of "Lukas-Passion" by Penderecki I've used 12 fonts all together (3 music + 6 utility fonts) and 3 for plane/italic text. If Dorico was capable to maintain such music texture the amount of the fonts would be only 1, at most 2 plus again the same 3 for text directions.

It's controversial.
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

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