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Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes?

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Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes?

Postby Djard » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:58 am

When extracting instruments from a score for the purpose of saving them as audio tracks (WAV files), which can then be imported in a DAW for professional editing and mix-down, the accelerando is lost in all except the lead instrument. All the parts play OK in the master document.

I tried adding accel. in each extracted document, but then playback of the accel. fails.

If the manual offers the steps to extract instruments without losing tempo changes, they are not under tempo change or accel. Surely it is not necessary to write the orchestral parts in separate documents for obtaining correct audio. Is there a way to extract files from a score without losing tempo changes?
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Hector Pascal » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:33 am

Hi Djard,

This workaround once saved my bacon:

Open the full score, then go into the Mixer window, then turn to zero the volume of all tracks except for one which will be the first to be exported as audio file. Export it as an audio file. Then, rinse and repeat for each of the other tracks. Note that sometimes if you mute the top track which has accels attached etc., you might loose the accels in the track you are exporting, so that is why I tend to turn the volumes down to zero and do it that way instead of using the mute button. This method is sneaky because all the tracks "play" but you don't hear them all and so you get what you need each time.

Cheers,
Hector.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby BuonTempi » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:34 am

Would applying HP to the score, exporting MIDI and then using Garritan instruments in the DAW not work?

Or, on the Mac, you can output Finale's MIDI channels to another MIDI application. Kind of ReWire in reverse. I presume Windows can do something similar.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Djard » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:50 pm

HP is applied to the score: I tried "Classical" and "Jazz"in addition to "Standard."

Hector's method works. I don't play keyboards, so I don't have a MIDI setup. It seems everything I do with Finale requires a workaround. I appreciate learning that that others run into these problems, so I don't have to waste time re-writing the score in a fresh template. Finale 2012's engineering is really lame for it not include tempo changes in extracted parts, and not permit adding a tempo change in the document of an extracted part.

Does the latest version have the capability of extracting parts without losing tempo changes, and does it ignore an anacrusis when truncating empty measures?
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby BuonTempi » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm

I just tried exporting audio from a LINKED Part. It works. Only that part is in the audio file.

But applying the HP to Finale's underlying MIDI data (you'll need to look up where that command is, it's moved in 25), then exporting that MIDI file and using that in a DAW would be far simpler than the current convoluted process.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Djard » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:38 pm

BuonTempi, I am utterly burned out with workarounds. I may try what you kindly describe after my batteries recharge. In the meantime, using the mixer to mute all but the part exported as an audio file is what I will do.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby blueshift » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:35 pm

I struggle with this for a long time - now I have a non-printing tempo staff at the top of all my fFinale arrangements. It is assigned to a channel with no instrument in it, so it is always set to export with any active tracks I want to render into aiff or wav. It makes a breeze out of final editing in a DAW.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Djard » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:33 am

A lot of clever people post at this forum. I hope MakeMusic's engineers visit and take note of what is discussed here. Indeed, necessity is the mother of invention.

Thanks to all for the valuable help.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Jetcopy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:47 am

Djard,

Can you explain to me what is gained by taking a wav file from FInale and importing that into a DAW? IMO, the way to use a DAW is to take a export a midi file from Finale and use the DAW's midi editing tools to get the best playback possible. I view the Finale's human playback as a good starting point, but there is so much more that can be done to a midi file to bring the music to life.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Djard » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:51 am

Once I import a raw file into my DAW, I have a lot more control over the audio: I can use better EQ (even create sub-harmonics), add superior reverb of different types to individual instruments if I wish, insert a customized echo effect to a phrase, compress a spike in the waveform if the dynamic range is too great, envelope parts for customizing with precision the dynamics of sections, duplicate multiple voice parts then offset them +15ms to -15ms apart for a customized chorus effect, use the time shift tool (without altering pitch) to modify a tempo alteration on the fly, and use graphic panning that helps me visualize the ensemble.

Among other things, the DAW permits placement of individual drums or create precise audio movement, like bells panning from one side to another or produce piano in stereo. I can also splice sections, save the work up at to 96Kbps, create 7.1 surround sound, add live vocals and add a myriad of effects without having to look for workarounds to limitations.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby HaraldS » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:33 am

Yes, you‘re right in all advantages of a DAW, but the question was why you would prefer exporting an Audio file from Finale rather than a MIDI file which would give you these and a lot more editing possibilities, including tempo changes.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Jetcopy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:50 pm

Yes, exactly what Harald said. You're only using half of your DAW's capabilities.


For example, Finale assigns a specific numeric value to a dynamic, for example mf has a value of 75. That means that every mf in your score is exactly at the same level. That's not what happens with real players. There's variation with the dynamics, velocity, vibrato, hairpins, etc.... You're limiting yourself by not using these tools.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Djard » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:10 am

I thought WAV files had the highest bitrate and therefore the best quality. MIDI files are just a set of instructions and technically not audio files. Evidently there is more to MIDI that what I know about them, which is not much.

OK, so I enthusiastically saved a score in Finale as a MIDI file and opened it in my DAW: it sounded comically synthetic. And I had no waveform with which to work. Sorry to sound so nascent, but what am I overlooking?
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Jetcopy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:39 pm

Hi Djard,

I don't know what DAW you use, (I use Logic), but the initial playback should be very close to FInale's playback. I'm guessing that when you saved to midi, the human playback didn't get included in that file. Also, make sure you load the same Garritan instruments into your DAw that you used in the FInale file. The instruments aren't part of the midi file and must be loaded separately Beyond that issue, you would need to open up the piano role editor in your DAW and use it's tools to edit Midi controllers on an individual basis for each instrument.

If you're using Garritan sounds, edit, CC#1 & CC#11 to add nuance to dynamics. You can randomize things like velocity, the start of notes, the length of notes, vibrato control if available. There's a lot of different midi controllers and you can edit any or all of them.

Once I'm happy with my midi, then I export each track to audio and use the audio tools.

Good luck.
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Re: Can we extract score parts without loss of tempo changes

Postby Djard » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:00 am

Thanks for the interesting info. I have so much to learn. Sigh!
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