Alternating Hands - Piano

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FourHands
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Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by FourHands » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:36 pm

Hello,

I'm pretty stubborn about asking for help. (Runs in the family:) But I've wasted a lot of time. I've been trying to figure out how to write alternating 16ths in one clef. It is my own composition but the style is the same as the Prokofiev op. 11

I realize there are some other ways, but this way seems the clearest as a performer. Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
(I use Finale 2014)

Thanks!
John

Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

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FourHands
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:27 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2014
Operating System: Windows

Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by FourHands » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:39 pm

Sorry. I forget the attachment earlier.
prokofiev-toccata.jpg
prokofiev-toccata.jpg (33.4 KiB) Viewed 175 times

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motet
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Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by motet » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:40 pm

This is problematic. The best way I can think of is
  1. Write in two layers with requisite rests; up-stems in layer 1, downstems in layer 2.
  2. Use the "move rests" plug-in to move the rests off the page.
  3. Use the document option "Beams/Extend secondary beams over rests."
  4. Use the Beam extension tool to extend the right side of the beat-1 beams as shown in the picture. Double click to set it to extend both 8th and 16th beams. If you go to about the middle of the other set of beams, this will help it survive respacing and a change of measure width to wider or narrower, since the amount of extension is fixed and not "smart".
"Extend secondary beams over rests" has some problems which may or may not affect you. Unfortunately, it's a global setting. Another way is to not use that and instead connect the beams with a Smart Shape, but that's rather tedious.
Attachments
Image1.png
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Last edited by motet on Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:47 pm

I know of three ways to do it.

The attached PDF file shows my preferred solution.

AlternatingStems.pdf.zip
(62.76 KiB) Downloaded 45 times
Mac OS X 10.14 (Mojave), Finale user since 1996

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motet
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Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by motet » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:48 pm

If you don't mind the sixteenths grouped in twos rather than in fours, then you don't need "Extend secondary beams over rests." Again use the beam extension tool, but extend the 16th beams only. Make them overlap as shown to survive respacing.
Attachments
image2.png
image2.png (68.12 KiB) Viewed 139 times

FourHands
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Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by FourHands » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:03 am

Thank you! Both of you. I was missing a few of those steps. I really appreciate it.

Best
John

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motet
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Re: Alternating Hands - Piano

Post by motet » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:03 pm

For fun, I played with this some more and found that it can be done without enabling "extend secondary beams over rests", which has this unwanted effect:
0285.png
0285.png (46.2 KiB) Viewed 58 times
Without using that option, the beam extension tool can achieve the desired effect as follows:
Image3.png
Image3.png (39.18 KiB) Viewed 58 times
0284.png
0284.png (33.65 KiB) Viewed 58 times
However, this is not only tedious to get just right, it will not survive a change in spacing or measure width.

Perhaps, though, some genius here could write a JW Lua script that could be run once the final formatting is reached.

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