Nested Triplet problem
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
I'm struggling with notating this:
1 quarter
click quarter with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 quarters in the space of 2 quarters'
Ok
Enter 2 quarters
Enter 1 quarter
click quarter with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 quarters in the space of 2 quarters'
Ok
Enter 1 eighth
click eighth with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 eighth in the space of 2 eighths'
Ok
enter 2 eighths
enter 1 eighth
click eighth with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 eighth in the space of 2 eighths'
Ok
Here's where the problem is because after this Finale will only let me enter 1 more eighth: or if I break the beam this happens:
I enter with speedy tool:1 quarter
click quarter with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 quarters in the space of 2 quarters'
Ok
Enter 2 quarters
Enter 1 quarter
click quarter with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 quarters in the space of 2 quarters'
Ok
Enter 1 eighth
click eighth with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 eighth in the space of 2 eighths'
Ok
enter 2 eighths
enter 1 eighth
click eighth with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 eighth in the space of 2 eighths'
Ok
Here's where the problem is because after this Finale will only let me enter 1 more eighth: or if I break the beam this happens:
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6662
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Kroy,
Do not leave the Speedy Entry Tool (= do not switch to the Tuplet Tool).
Instead, use the Speedy Entry Tool’s sub-tool Tuplet Tool:
Before you enter the first tuplet note, hit Option-3.
This step will activate the Tuplet (sub-)Tool in Speedy, and tell it that you are about to enter a 3:2 triplet.
Then, enter the first tuplet note.
The tuplet will be defined as a 3:2 triplet based on the first tuplet note value.
This means:
If the first tuplet note is a 4tr, then the tuplet will be defined as “3 Quarters in the space of 2 Quarters”.
If the first tuplet note is an 8th, then the tuplet will be defined as “3 Eighths in the space of 2 Eighths”.
Read about it in the online manual.
Do not leave the Speedy Entry Tool (= do not switch to the Tuplet Tool).
Instead, use the Speedy Entry Tool’s sub-tool Tuplet Tool:
Before you enter the first tuplet note, hit Option-3.
This step will activate the Tuplet (sub-)Tool in Speedy, and tell it that you are about to enter a 3:2 triplet.
Then, enter the first tuplet note.
The tuplet will be defined as a 3:2 triplet based on the first tuplet note value.
This means:
If the first tuplet note is a 4tr, then the tuplet will be defined as “3 Quarters in the space of 2 Quarters”.
If the first tuplet note is an 8th, then the tuplet will be defined as “3 Eighths in the space of 2 Eighths”.
Read about it in the online manual.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Thank you, I got there in the end.
Your encouragement to read the manual led me to The Rhythmic Subdivisions plug-in, which solved the issue.
Slowing the section of music down revealed that it's actually this: But it needs to be written in 4/4 because the rest of the song is.
I could get as far as this with speedy entry and alt-3 to add triplets: But I couldn't figure out how to turn the note on beat 3 into a triplet (until I discovered The Rhythmic Subdivisions plug-in)
So applying the plug-in to the note on beat 3, I was able to change it to this:
Your encouragement to read the manual led me to The Rhythmic Subdivisions plug-in, which solved the issue.
Slowing the section of music down revealed that it's actually this: But it needs to be written in 4/4 because the rest of the song is.
I could get as far as this with speedy entry and alt-3 to add triplets: But I couldn't figure out how to turn the note on beat 3 into a triplet (until I discovered The Rhythmic Subdivisions plug-in)
So applying the plug-in to the note on beat 3, I was able to change it to this:
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
- motet
- Posts: 8386
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
That doesn't match your original picture, though.
It can all be done without a plug-in. If there's a sub-triplet at the beginning of the bigger triplet, though, you either need to use the separate tuplet tool (enter all the notes, then start with the inner-most triplets), or, with Speedy entry, start outer triplet, then back up the cursor and press Ctrl-3 again for the inner triplet.
It can all be done without a plug-in. If there's a sub-triplet at the beginning of the bigger triplet, though, you either need to use the separate tuplet tool (enter all the notes, then start with the inner-most triplets), or, with Speedy entry, start outer triplet, then back up the cursor and press Ctrl-3 again for the inner triplet.
Sorry, I made a mistake in the original picture - the phrase I ended up with is what I wanted to achieve though.motet wrote:That doesn't match your original picture, though.
It can all be done without a plug-in. If there's a sub-triplet at the beginning of the bigger triplet, though, you either need to use the separate tuplet tool (enter all the notes, then start with the inner-most triplets), or, with Speedy entry, start outer triplet, then back up the cursor and press Ctrl-3 again for the inner triplet.
I tried your suggestion but I couldn't get it to work:
I enter this with speedy entry: Back up the cursor to the 1/4 note trip and press alt-3 (I'm on a Mac): then enter three 8ths with speedy entry, but this is what I end up with: Did I misunderstand your instructions?
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
- motet
- Posts: 8386
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
Back up to the quarter note and enter the eighth note triplet right away, before completing the outer triplet. Make sure "Insert Notes or Rests" on the Speedy menu is unchecked.
The 3 from the outer triplet may overlap that from the middle inner triplet, so you'll need to flip one of them.
The 3 from the outer triplet may overlap that from the middle inner triplet, so you'll need to flip one of them.
Last edited by motet on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6662
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Another thought:
Since the first tuplet is a 6-tuplet, it might be simpler to notate the second tuplet as a 9-tuplet (= no nested tuplet):
Since the first tuplet is a 6-tuplet, it might be simpler to notate the second tuplet as a 9-tuplet (= no nested tuplet):
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
My apologies but I just can't make this work, I'm obviously not understanding the instructions correctly.motet wrote:Back up to the quarter note and enter the eighth note triplet right away, before completing the outer triplet. Make sure "Insert Notes or Rests" on the Speedy menu is unchecked.
The 3 from the outer triplet may overlap that from the middle inner triplet, so you'll need to flip one of them.
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
That works - thank you.Peter Thomsen wrote:Another thought:
Since the first tuplet is a 6-tuplet, it might be simpler to notate the second tuplet as a 9-tuplet (= no nested tuplet):
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9