File Attachment Issue
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I reported this issue in the Forum Feedback spot, but I don't think many users read that, so I'm giving a warning here.
All my Forum posts with Finale File attachments from September 17 and back to the date I joined have disappeared. Gone. I only mention it here for those of you who have given help to others or who have posted files for examination and may have attached files to check for your posts before September 17 to see if your attachments have also vanished. If I am the only one, then I will try to contact the moderators about the issue. However, if I am not the only one, we all need to at least be aware of the problem.
It appears not to affect picture attachments, or links appearing in the body of a post.
Zuill
All my Forum posts with Finale File attachments from September 17 and back to the date I joined have disappeared. Gone. I only mention it here for those of you who have given help to others or who have posted files for examination and may have attached files to check for your posts before September 17 to see if your attachments have also vanished. If I am the only one, then I will try to contact the moderators about the issue. However, if I am not the only one, we all need to at least be aware of the problem.
It appears not to affect picture attachments, or links appearing in the body of a post.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- motet
- Posts: 8386
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
I am affected too, as you know. I think the more we can characterize who and when, the better, since I suspect this was not intentionally done but rather is some sort of glitch. I will try to look more closely later today and provide more detail.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I updated my reporting on the issue in the original topic I started.
viewtopic.php?f=10&p=79244#p79244
Zuill
viewtopic.php?f=10&p=79244#p79244
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- miker
- Posts: 6051
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I just heard from Admin. He didn’t do anything. Since only some attachments are gone, he wonders if it’s a targeted attack. I’ve changed my password, and Peter should do so, as well.
More details will follow, if there is anything to report.
More details will follow, if there is anything to report.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- miker
- Posts: 6051
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
He just suggested that maybe there is a flaw in the Edit function. Could the attachments be dropped after editing the post?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- FinaleForum
- Site Admin
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:12 pm
- Finale Version: 25
- Operating System: Mac
Motet reported this issue yesterday. There is no automatic removal of attachments by age or any other metric. We don't randomly or automatically prune the forum. The only thing that gets pruned are spam and inactive users.
So far we can find no evidence of a hack but we've asked the moderators to change their passwords as a precaution.
By all indications it seems the reported missing attachments were posted between July 27 and September 17 and not all attachments went missing. We're looking into it, but I'm not hopeful we will be able to restore the attachments. Please repost them if you can.
Sorry about this. It could very well be a bug in the forum software.
Thanks!
So far we can find no evidence of a hack but we've asked the moderators to change their passwords as a precaution.
By all indications it seems the reported missing attachments were posted between July 27 and September 17 and not all attachments went missing. We're looking into it, but I'm not hopeful we will be able to restore the attachments. Please repost them if you can.
Sorry about this. It could very well be a bug in the forum software.
Thanks!
- motet
- Posts: 8386
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
I just had a thought--there was an odd thing I experienced recently and mentioned: when making a posting and adding attachments, changing your mind and pressing the "Delete" button on an attachment didn't appear to work, and a couple of times I had to bail and start over. I think Zuill mentioned it happened to him, too. This now makes me wonder if the forum software got confused and deleted the the wrong attachment, from an unrelated posting, or corrupted my attachments in general.
Zuill and I have both made a lot of postings here. I wonder if some internal counter or such rolled over. It would be interesting to know if Peter, Mike, and other frequent contributors are having trouble.
Zuill and I have both made a lot of postings here. I wonder if some internal counter or such rolled over. It would be interesting to know if Peter, Mike, and other frequent contributors are having trouble.
- FinaleForum
- Site Admin
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:12 pm
- Finale Version: 25
- Operating System: Mac
I don't think that's it. I think it's more likely that if you edited a post that already had an attachment, there may be a bug in the forum software that doesn't grab all the attachments when you save the edit. We're still looking into it.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
All my attachments that are Finale files are gone from September 17 back to my joining the forum. Also, some posts from other users I see at least has the text of the file name, but no link to a file. Possibly those were chosen to be inline, whereas I don't use that option. This is extremely odd.
What I will do is try to go forward and hope this does not continue to happen. However the power of this forum is definitely damaged if people search for help, read in a post that there is a sample file to look at, and then wonder why there's no file. That makes the concept of searching for help greatly reduced, if not useless.
Zuill
What I will do is try to go forward and hope this does not continue to happen. However the power of this forum is definitely damaged if people search for help, read in a post that there is a sample file to look at, and then wonder why there's no file. That makes the concept of searching for help greatly reduced, if not useless.
Zuill
Last edited by zuill on Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- motet
- Posts: 8386
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
For what it's worth, in the pinned "Motet's transposition chart", I made postings with attachments Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:42 pm and Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:32 pm that are now gone. The postings are still there and there's no indication that the posts have been edited (and I'm fairly certain they weren't).
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
It only seems to affect Finale files. At one time, Finale files were not able to be posted here. We asked for that and got it. I'm thinking that option got removed, maybe accidentally, and in the process, deleted all the files.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6662
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Neither the attached Finale document (= Bracket.musx) nor the attached graphic (= Bracket.jpg) remained in this post of mine:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19376&p=78513#p78513
It seems that it is not just Finale documents, that are missing.
Other files have disappeared as well.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
-
- Posts: 766
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
- Operating System: Windows
I opened Peter's link above and found that my attached png image(s) in that thread were gone too.
If it's of any help it looked like when you quote a post containing an image - in the qoute you only see the name and format of the image (fx RNA...PNG)
If it's of any help it looked like when you quote a post containing an image - in the qoute you only see the name and format of the image (fx RNA...PNG)
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10
Windows 10
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Okay. Then maybe my suggestion that regular, as opposed to inline, attachments are the ones that have been removed. I believe I have only tested inline once, and I don't recall when that post would have been made in order to check it.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
- Posts: 766
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
- Operating System: Windows
I always use inline placement of attachments, and mine were gone as well.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10
Windows 10
-
- Posts: 766
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
- Operating System: Windows
Just a perhaps not too qualified guess: Could there have been a crash of the system of this forum, and what remained to be salvaged were backup copies? There is that similarity between quoting, which is a kind of copying, and what is left in the posts (as I mentioned above).
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10
Windows 10
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I learned something this morning in communication with the Forum administrator that I was not aware of. I'm probably the only one that didn't know this, but, in case there might be another one out there, all of my attachments are listed in a tab in my User Control Panel. I suppose I should spend more time there to see what else I am not aware of.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- FinaleForum
- Site Admin
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:12 pm
- Finale Version: 25
- Operating System: Mac
We finally figured out what happened to the attachments. There was no hack, no passwords were compromised, and the site is stable.
The server company upgraded the database servers and moved the database to new hardware without telling us. Unfortunately, the attachments database was corrupted and they did not notify us. They "repaired" the database but the result is we lost some of the attachments.
Had they let us know, we could have restored from backup. Unfortunately, we didn't find out until 30 days later which exceeds the time of our daily backups. I'm araid there is no way to recover the attachments in the database.
This is unacceptable behavior by the server company and we have raised it with them. We should have been notified before the move and definitely should have been notified the database was corrupt. We have daily backups but we don't save them after 30 days because on a forum a 30 day old backup is irrelevant.
I'm sorry to have to report this but it seems to be a weird one off event caused by poor service by the host. It had nothing to do with a forum software bug or a hack.
The server company upgraded the database servers and moved the database to new hardware without telling us. Unfortunately, the attachments database was corrupted and they did not notify us. They "repaired" the database but the result is we lost some of the attachments.
Had they let us know, we could have restored from backup. Unfortunately, we didn't find out until 30 days later which exceeds the time of our daily backups. I'm araid there is no way to recover the attachments in the database.
This is unacceptable behavior by the server company and we have raised it with them. We should have been notified before the move and definitely should have been notified the database was corrupt. We have daily backups but we don't save them after 30 days because on a forum a 30 day old backup is irrelevant.
I'm sorry to have to report this but it seems to be a weird one off event caused by poor service by the host. It had nothing to do with a forum software bug or a hack.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Thank you for the update. For our information, did it just affect a certain date range? Or is this an unknown?
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- FinaleForum
- Site Admin
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:12 pm
- Finale Version: 25
- Operating System: Mac
We were able to do a partial restore from a backup on 9/1/2020 and merge it with the new attachments since September 17, 2020.
Please check your attachments and see if some missing ones turned up. I noticed some seem to be back (Motet's transposition chart) but others are still missing (Peter Thomsen's bracket.musx).
If you go to this this link you should be able to see if some your attachments are back:
ucp.php?i=ucp_attachments&mode=attachments
We restored an additional 2498 attachments. Some are still missing but that is a sizable number that I'm glad we were able to retrieve. Unfortunately, this is the best we can do. I'm sorry it took several days to track it down but when the host is less than forthcoming it's a real challenge.
Please check your attachments and see if some missing ones turned up. I noticed some seem to be back (Motet's transposition chart) but others are still missing (Peter Thomsen's bracket.musx).
If you go to this this link you should be able to see if some your attachments are back:
ucp.php?i=ucp_attachments&mode=attachments
We restored an additional 2498 attachments. Some are still missing but that is a sizable number that I'm glad we were able to retrieve. Unfortunately, this is the best we can do. I'm sorry it took several days to track it down but when the host is less than forthcoming it's a real challenge.
Thanks for the work. For what's it worth, here's my list of still missing attachments in the style of "[posting URL] : [missing attachment URL]"
viewtopic.php?t=17727&p=67379#p67379 : download/file.php?id=6326
viewtopic.php?t=18822&p=74605#p74605 : download/file.php?id=7723
viewtopic.php?t=17335&p=65282#p65282 : download/file.php?id=5957
viewtopic.php?t=17890&p=68375#p68375 : download/file.php?id=6478
viewtopic.php?t=18652&p=73601#p73601 : download/file.php?id=7413
viewtopic.php?t=16396&p=59327#p59327 : download/file.php?id=5059
viewtopic.php?t=18209&p=70802#p70802 : download/file.php?id=6863
viewtopic.php?t=18035&p=69445#p69445 : download/file.php?id=6637
viewtopic.php?t=18035&p=69445#p69445 : download/file.php?id=6638
If I can revocer these by myself, please give a hint how to do so.
viewtopic.php?t=17727&p=67379#p67379 : download/file.php?id=6326
viewtopic.php?t=18822&p=74605#p74605 : download/file.php?id=7723
viewtopic.php?t=17335&p=65282#p65282 : download/file.php?id=5957
viewtopic.php?t=17890&p=68375#p68375 : download/file.php?id=6478
viewtopic.php?t=18652&p=73601#p73601 : download/file.php?id=7413
viewtopic.php?t=16396&p=59327#p59327 : download/file.php?id=5059
viewtopic.php?t=18209&p=70802#p70802 : download/file.php?id=6863
viewtopic.php?t=18035&p=69445#p69445 : download/file.php?id=6637
viewtopic.php?t=18035&p=69445#p69445 : download/file.php?id=6638
If I can revocer these by myself, please give a hint how to do so.
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany