Dynamic markings case Finale to disregard slurs
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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- Posts: 683
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Okay, so I have a bar where the instruments slur over the bar line, but Finale insists on ignoring the slur marking. After much experimenting (translation: tearing out hair), I realize that when I removed the dynamic markings in the next bar, Finale will honor the slur. Can someone explain to me the connection between dynamic markings and slurs? I need those dynamics; I can't just leave them out for the sake of playback. If that's the work-around to hear it properly, fine: it's just another Finale quirk I have to live with, but I'd rather understand what's going on so maybe I can fix it. Thanks!
Finale v. 26, Windows 10, NP3, Garritan Instruments for Finale
- Michel R E
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- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
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what exactly are the dynamic markings?
can you at least post an image of what you've written?
a sudden change in dynamics requires a different type of playing. very few instruments can suddenly with control switch dynamics, particularly in a slur. The slur means "do not re-articulate the note".
are you maybe leaving out the hairpin crescendo?
can you at least post an image of what you've written?
a sudden change in dynamics requires a different type of playing. very few instruments can suddenly with control switch dynamics, particularly in a slur. The slur means "do not re-articulate the note".
are you maybe leaving out the hairpin crescendo?
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
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- Finale Version: v26, NP3
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Everyone, thanks for these helpful responses. For reasons other than the slur issue, I revised the section completely, so it's a moot point. I think my takeaway is that I didn't use a hairpin for the decrease from mf to p. I've tried to recreate the problem and failed; whatever I do now the slurred notes are played back slurred. Weird. I confess I wasn't clear whether we were talking "real life" or just Finale playback quirks. Playing trumpet, I have zero problem playing dim. on a slurred note; it's nothing. Regardless, if I have a similar passage to write in the future (inevitable), I'll use a hairpin and hopefully that's the answer.
Finale v. 26, Windows 10, NP3, Garritan Instruments for Finale
- Michel R E
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and you answered your own question here: playing dim on a slurred note.
Finale can't know you want a diminuendo hairpin if you don't put one. it sees one dynamic, then suddenly another.
Finale can't know you want a diminuendo hairpin if you don't put one. it sees one dynamic, then suddenly another.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
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- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:10 am
- Finale Version: v26, NP3
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Understood. But in that case what I'd expect is a sudden drop in volume, not detaching the note completely when it's under a slur. Regardless, hopefully lesson learned. Thanks for your response.
Finale v. 26, Windows 10, NP3, Garritan Instruments for Finale
- Michel R E
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- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
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remember that underneath all of that music, there's still a computer and coding.
and the program basically is sending a code, once, that says "play this dynamic". so that note is assigned a specific dynamic.
then you give it another note, and have inserted a different dynamic marking. The program sees this and sends a single bit of information that says "play this dynamic".
The problem here is that there is a slur, and without ALSO telling the computer that there has to be a reduction in volume (which would basically be a while bunch of discrete bits of information that gradually give the impression of a smooth reduction in volume) you are giving it basically an "error". it doesn't know ow to handle a smooth transition from "loud" to "soft" (using those as an example) AND slurred. the program is basically handling the information as best as it can.
either it ignores the slur (which was what it was doing in this case),
or it ignores the 2nd dynamic (allowing the music to thus be slurred).
and the program basically is sending a code, once, that says "play this dynamic". so that note is assigned a specific dynamic.
then you give it another note, and have inserted a different dynamic marking. The program sees this and sends a single bit of information that says "play this dynamic".
The problem here is that there is a slur, and without ALSO telling the computer that there has to be a reduction in volume (which would basically be a while bunch of discrete bits of information that gradually give the impression of a smooth reduction in volume) you are giving it basically an "error". it doesn't know ow to handle a smooth transition from "loud" to "soft" (using those as an example) AND slurred. the program is basically handling the information as best as it can.
either it ignores the slur (which was what it was doing in this case),
or it ignores the 2nd dynamic (allowing the music to thus be slurred).
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
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- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
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Sometimes one can do custom MIDI data manipulations to solve some MIDI processing issues. When a slur doesn't quite handle it by triggering the HP properly, I add a bit of length to the playback of the note with the MIDI Tool. Since different samples respond differently, and HP is not perfect, the MIDI Tool can come in handy.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Thanks both of you for the information, which is all good to know so I can understand Finale better. I think for now I'll just try to remember the limitation and always include a hairpin.....rather not get into midi manipulation.....save you guys a lot of "help I'm drowning!" posts.
Finale v. 26, Windows 10, NP3, Garritan Instruments for Finale
- motet
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- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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If you were playing this (without hairpins) on the trumpet, wouldn't you need to make a sudden "ha!' of air on the Bs? It is an attack of sorts. I guess it is different from tonguing the note, but usually when I've heard people do this (more commonly with an accent than with a change of dynamic), it's usually not very musical. (Loud to soft is not so much a problem.)
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