Swing 16ths not working
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
Running Finale 27 on a 2020 MacBook Air.
I'm attempting to write a piece with swung 16th notes, and am using this article as a guide:
https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/swing- ... in-finale/
I initially followed the instructions on changing the visuals, before looking at any of the playback instructions. So I did the playback steps after doing the visual steps. When I tried to play the piece, it swung the 8ths instead of the 16ths. What am I doing wrong here? Do I need to start over again and do the playback stuff first?
I'm attempting to write a piece with swung 16th notes, and am using this article as a guide:
https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/swing- ... in-finale/
I initially followed the instructions on changing the visuals, before looking at any of the playback instructions. So I did the playback steps after doing the visual steps. When I tried to play the piece, it swung the 8ths instead of the 16ths. What am I doing wrong here? Do I need to start over again and do the playback stuff first?
- motet
- Posts: 8386
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- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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It would be best if you could attach your file here, at least the first few measures with the tempo mark (which I'm guessing is the culprit).
Last edited by motet on Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- miker
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Is it a multistaff piece? I’ll never understand why a “swing” tempo has to be applied to each staff. If you don’t, only the top staff will swing.
(Please someone, tell me I’ve been doing it wrong all these years, and I don’t have to put the expression on every staff. Yes, I know I can hide them.)
(Please someone, tell me I’ve been doing it wrong all these years, and I don’t have to put the expression on every staff. Yes, I know I can hide them.)
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- Peter Thomsen
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There is a way to make the score play back Swing in all the staves, without displaying the Swing expression on each and every staff in the score:
In the Score List, select all the staves in the column for Parts.
Yes, I know.
It sounds crazy that a setting for the Parts would affect the playback of the Score.
Just One Of Those Things.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
I don't even know how to get to the score list.
Here's my file.
Here's my file.
- Attachments
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- chart take 1.musx
- (124.09 KiB) Downloaded 189 times
- Peter Thomsen
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Generally, to find a particular dialog box in Finale (like e. g. the dialog box Score Lists), use the online manual, and type the dialog box name in the Search field.
To get to the dialog box Score Lists:
Document menu > Category Designer
Click on the Tempo Marks category, to select it.
When the Tempo Marks category is selected, you will at the bottom of the Category Designer see Score List
(if the Dynamics category is selected, then you will not see Score List)
Then, click on the button {Edit…}, to edit the Score List, or to create a new Score List.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- motet
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Oh, sorry.
Set the time signature to 8/8, displayed as 4/4, not (2+2+2+2)/8 like you have. You'll need a second expression to set the tempo.
You may have to use Utilities/Rebeam/Rebeam to time signature (4/4) after you've entered the notes, to get the beaming you want.
Set the time signature to 8/8, displayed as 4/4, not (2+2+2+2)/8 like you have. You'll need a second expression to set the tempo.
You may have to use Utilities/Rebeam/Rebeam to time signature (4/4) after you've entered the notes, to get the beaming you want.
Ok, that resolved most of my issues. The only thing left seems to be that the slash notation is showing 8 beats per bar instead of 4. Any way to fix that?motet wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:27 amOh, sorry.
Set the time signature to 8/8, displayed as 4/4, not (2+2+2+2)/8 like you have. You'll need a second expression to set the tempo.
You may have to use Utilities/Rebeam/Rebeam to time signature (4/4) after you've entered the notes, to get the beaming you want.
Actually, there's another issue too - the notes aren't beamed properly. This might be why the Finale guide I mentioned in the OP was telling me to do the 2+2+2+2/8.
Is there any way to have both the proper swing 16th playback and the correct beaming? I don't really mind switching between the two (realistically the only time I'll have to switch is once I'm done writing and need to print the score and parts) but it'd still be a pain.
EDIT: I can still use the / to join the beams, so I guess it's not so bad. Still it'd be good to know.
Is there any way to have both the proper swing 16th playback and the correct beaming? I don't really mind switching between the two (realistically the only time I'll have to switch is once I'm done writing and need to print the score and parts) but it'd still be a pain.
EDIT: I can still use the / to join the beams, so I guess it's not so bad. Still it'd be good to know.
- motet
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The only solution I can think of for the slash notation is to use rhythmic notation--which means you need to enter quarter notes--and then hide the stems. I guess you'd want to suppress playback, too. JW Change can accomplish both. If you do one measure you can copy it elsewhere.
- Attachments
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- 0492.png (103.35 KiB) Viewed 9667 times
- motet
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I've reported the erroneous advice of (2+2+2+2)/8 to the author of that page.
Of course it's ridiculous that what values to swing depend on the time signature. It should be a separate setting.
Of course it's ridiculous that what values to swing depend on the time signature. It should be a separate setting.
- Peter Thomsen
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Quoting from an older forum post:
“You can create a workaround for this by changing the time signature to 8/8 to look as 4/4.
With the 8th note as the unit of beat, 16ths will swing.
The only drawback to this plan is if you have measures with slash notation.
They will now have 8 slashes instead of 4.
Creating a staff style for "Slash Notation with Independent Time Signature" allows you to change those measures or staves to 4/4 and get the standard 4 slashes needed.
If you have 16th note swing in the measure hidden by the slashes, then changing to 4/4 doesn't help.”
“You can create a workaround for this by changing the time signature to 8/8 to look as 4/4.
With the 8th note as the unit of beat, 16ths will swing.
The only drawback to this plan is if you have measures with slash notation.
They will now have 8 slashes instead of 4.
Creating a staff style for "Slash Notation with Independent Time Signature" allows you to change those measures or staves to 4/4 and get the standard 4 slashes needed.
If you have 16th note swing in the measure hidden by the slashes, then changing to 4/4 doesn't help.”
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Good to know, but how does the new staff style work on a step by step basis? All I can find is the Independent Elements section - not sure how it all works from there.Peter Thomsen wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:10 amQuoting from an older forum post:
“You can create a workaround for this by changing the time signature to 8/8 to look as 4/4.
With the 8th note as the unit of beat, 16ths will swing.
The only drawback to this plan is if you have measures with slash notation.
They will now have 8 slashes instead of 4.
Creating a staff style for "Slash Notation with Independent Time Signature" allows you to change those measures or staves to 4/4 and get the standard 4 slashes needed.
If you have 16th note swing in the measure hidden by the slashes, then changing to 4/4 doesn't help.”
- michelp
- Posts: 2073
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Or... in the staff attributes of the staff that needs the 4 slashes, next to Independent Elements, select Time Signature.
When slashes are needed (4 of them), select the region in that staff and change its time signature to 4/4. Apply the slash notation.
When slashes are needed (4 of them), select the region in that staff and change its time signature to 4/4. Apply the slash notation.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua